Finance Committee on Oct. 2nd, 2006

[Diane Ablonczy, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Does this work better in the schools or through community leaders? How have you found the message getting out best?

[Grand Chief Andy Carvill]

It works well in schools. As you know, we have a lot of youth--and I have seen them personally as I was growing up--who smoke on school grounds. Certain schools have smoking pits and whatnot. So it's important to reach them, and not only in school. The health departments in the communities are also very helpful with respect to getting the message out to the people.

[Diane Ablonczy, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

You mentioned a couple of times the need for increased support for self-government strategies and measures. I wonder if you could just help us to understand exactly the areas where you would feel the federal government could be most helpful, because self-government is kind of a wide-ranging area. Is it in the area of health or education? Or is it all of them?

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

Grand Chief, you have about 20 seconds remaining in this section for that enormous question.

[Grand Chief Andy Carvill]

Thank you. I think it's all of them. But to really help us with respect to self-governance we need to implement our agreements with Ottawa. By that, I mean being recognized as a government and being equipped with the tools that will help us to implement these agreements.

[Diane Ablonczy, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

Thank you very much, Madam Ablonczy.

I would like to make a quick point. Mark me down as one who enjoys very much the programming on APTN. Congratulations to you and your associates on your production work.

Secondly, eight provinces currently have passed non-smoking legislation. I'm just curious as to what your organization's position would be in regard to that proposal if it were brought forward in the Yukon.

[Grand Chief Andy Carvill]

My position on behalf of the Council of Yukon First Nations is that it would be supported. But we would do it in conjunction, I believe, with the Yukon territorial government. We have a close working relationship with the government, and I believe it would definitely be supported.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

Thank you, Grand Chief.

We move now to my Manitoba colleague, Madam Judy Wasylycia-Leis. You have six minutes.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

Thank you very much.

Thank you all for your great presentations. As you know, we're all very glad to be here, and we appreciate your massive input into these hearings.

Let me just pick up first on Diane Ablonczy's question and comment about smoking among aboriginal youth.

To Chief Carvill, are we dealing with the problem at all by eliminating all the funding for first nations and Inuit tobacco control strategies?

[Grand Chief Andy Carvill]

Yes. As I said in my response to Mr. Bagnell's question earlier, eliminating the funding will make it more of a burden, not only on my people, but I believe on the government. As we look at the health system, it's going to be more costly, with people coming in and out of the hospitals and health centres and whatnot, due to smoking-related illnesses. I know it's not a very good move to eliminate that. If we can't educate the people about the harm that smoking is doing to their bodies, and it's taking away the funding and we can't get the message out to them anymore, it may seem to these young people that we don't care anymore. And it will continue to be a burden on us.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

So if we recommend anything, we should recommend the restoration of the funding for this program, as a small piece of one solution to a big problem.

I wanted to stay on the theme of cutbacks just for now. This has dominated all of our thoughts. I think it was best said by Karen Baltgailis, who commented on the wisdom of these kinds of cuts. She said they are really nickels and dimes to our community groups, but that's all they have to put on things like literacy programs and skills training. And yet there are billions of dollars for profit to oil and gas companies that are rolling in profit. They're seeing the best years they've ever had. So it's hard for us to grasp the priorities of this government.

One of the big cuts, of course, is the GST rebates for visitors, which I know--you've said, Mr. Taylor, as have others--is a huge loss for a very necessary and vibrant industry in Canada. I wonder if you realize that for the government just to bring forward the legislation to eliminate the GST rebate program, unlike the case of many of the other cuts, which we're going to have to fight through public pressure, it will require a ways and means motion in Parliament. The ways and means motion has been introduced in Parliament. It's number seven on the order paper. We don't know when the government will bring it forward. They have to give us 24 hours' notice. And they haven't said it's a non-confidence motion. So I have a feeling, given what I've heard from the Bloc and the Liberals, and of course the NDP, that we could have the votes to defeat this motion. I'm wondering if you have any kind of plan or strategy to make sure that every MP is aware of the serious impact of this cut, in short order, so we can be ready to defeat this motion as soon as possible.

[Rod Taylor]

Sure. I don't want to jump into the place of our national advocacy organization—that's TIAC, the Tourism Industry Association of Canada—but I can tell you that they are hard at that very program. There's no question that we recognize that this potentially could be a government-ending initiative.

The question to us really is, do people recognize it for what it is? It's not tourism operators like me asking for more money. This isn't going to our bottom line. What we're talking about is trying to increase market share for tourism in Canada in general. It's simply a business issue. That's what it is. The cumulative business acumen, with all your colleagues in the House of Commons, is enormous. People surely have to be able to understand that if you pay a dollar and get $37 back, in the long run that's better for all Canadians. That's what we're trying to say.

Our problem, I think, is that too often the public sees us as just operators wanting to somehow make more money, and that's not what this is about. The issue is big enough that it goes to the heart of the industry itself. If the industry falters, the reality is that in the long run we lose taxes for all Canadians—to implement literacy programs, non-smoking programs, etc.

We think it's a huge issue. We hope all of the three parties in opposition are going to support us on this. I can only tell you that within the next week all of you will be getting briefs sent to you by TIAC that will press this point. It's incredibly important to us.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

Thanks for that, although so far we haven't heard that the government has made this a non-confidence motion. It may not be a government-ending initiative.

[Rod Taylor]

We hope.

Just kidding.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

They may see the wisdom, in fact, of allowing Parliament to express its views and accept defeat on this issue.

The other cuts are a little harder to deal with because they don't necessarily require a motion before Parliament.

I want to thank Debbie for putting before us the crisis in child care in such clear, unequivocal terms. If you could say one thing to the Conservatives, who believe they're providing a child care program through this supposed $1,200 grant per child under the age of six, what would it be? How could that money better be spent to deal with the crisis you have articulated?

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

Debbie, unfortunately, Madam Wasylycia-Leis has used up her time in preamble to her question. If you want to say that one thing, just take a couple of seconds to say it; otherwise, we'll have to wait for another question.

[Debbie Throssell]

Okay, I'll wait.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

Thank you.

I think most of us hope we'll wait for the next election, until after you finish yours here. There are enough signs up, I'm sure. Most of us agree on that.

We continue now with the second round of questioning.

Mr. Pacetti, you have five minutes, sir.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Yes, sir. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Now that Judy or the NDP has spoken for the rest of us and stated what our positions are, I'd like to put on record that we haven't taken a position on whether we're going to defeat the government or not. We usually consult our caucus members. Judy would like to speak for us. I'm not so sure; I'm too paranoid.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

On a point of order, Mr. Chairperson, please.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

On a point of order, Madam Wasylycia-Leis.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

I just want it to be clear. I didn't talk about defeating the government, I talked about defeating—

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

I'm sorry, that's not a point of order, and we'll proceed with Mr.—

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

—the ways and means motion on the GST rebate.