Finance Committee on Oct. 5th, 2006

[Colin Taylor]

Our general position is that if you don't have a tax base, if you don't have a population base, you're not going to be able to afford to hire people to look after the population. Our population in Saskatchewan is aging fairly quickly and there are going to be a lot of calls upon the health care system. If the resources are not available to pay for those, I don't know what's going to happen.

In our view, you get those resources by having companies and individuals who are working and paying taxes, so our key concern in the province of Saskatchewan is the tax base, and not just a resource base. The resource base is very fleeting. Once it's gone, it's gone. What we have to do is build secondary industry that can build a tax base so that we can afford to reverse the nursing shortage and we can afford to fund the social programs that are required.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

Marlene, can we wait that long?

[Marlene Brown]

Not with the nursing shortage. We need some strategies right now to deal with it.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

I think we're all still amazed that the money that was set aside in 2004 to deal with the nursing shortage didn't actually get spent and that there wasn't a plan. Did that money just get frittered away? Where did it go, and can we get it back in any way?

[Marlene Brown]

I can't tell you exactly where it went, but I think you're right. We need targeted funding and the strategies that such funding is going to support, because we need to deal with the issues of the nursing shortage right now.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

Your time has elapsed.

Just before we go to the second round, Bryan, I'd like to ask you a couple of questions.

For some of my colleagues who are not familiar with Manitoba and Saskatchewan to the degree that residents are, obviously, I think it's difficult for them to understand the challenges that those two provinces in particular face with regard to their aboriginal population. The percentage of the population in Saskatchewan that is composed of aboriginal people is about 12% or 13%.

[Bryan Nylander]

Yes, it's 13% in the province.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

The problems endemic to on-reserve aboriginal people in particular are well understood by all of us, but what is the trend in Saskatchewan in terms of the out-migration from your reserves to urban centres? Is there a shifting population in Saskatchewan in that respect?

[Bryan Nylander]

Yes, that would be a fair thing to say. The last statistic I heard said that about 54% of the first nations in Saskatchewan live off-reserve, and there is a migration to the larger centres of Saskatoon and Regina. There's a draw to those communities, but I think there is also a draw from the reserves and into the smaller communities all across Saskatchewan.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

Of course, we're aware that creates transitional challenges, to put it mildly, but certainly opportunities as well.

[Bryan Nylander]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

The Manitoba chiefs commissioned a report about two or three years ago that called welfare a “right of passage” for aboriginal young people. They marked it as the key problem, the key obstacle, to encouraging aboriginal young people to pursue education and training. In this country, we are among the last in the western world to look at major reforms of our welfare delivery systems, particularly on reserves. Have you any views, has your organization any views—or any of the panellists—in respect of what possible reforms could be undertaken to remove this right-of-passage mentality and encourage further education and training to be pursued by aboriginal young people in this country?

[Bryan Nylander]

I don't think we would have an opinion on reform within the welfare system, but I do think that, from a community perspective, we need to promote the value of education. We need to ensure that the aboriginal community is very much welcomed into the industries and businesses that we have in our provinces, whatever they may be. We need to ensure that we promote and assist aboriginal peoples in accessing those training opportunities in order to satisfy the needs of the provinces.

It's a tremendous challenge. We are talking about a community that may not have many role models in certain trades and industries. There may be a reluctance to take advantage of the employment opportunities that are outside of their locale. It's a very complex issue.

The one encouragement that I have is that the first nations organizations are part of the solution. That includes the Saskatchewan Indian Institute of Technologies, but also local organizations. In my home community, we have a high school right within North Battleford that has been created by the separate and the public school systems, in partnership with local tribal councils. It's governed by tribal councils.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

A true partnership, I think you'd agree, would involve discussing how approximately $2 billion in perverse disincentives to pursue education and training could be used more effectively.

[Bryan Nylander]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

Mr. Marit, there are pockets of success in terms of urban reserves, but I'm interested in knowing your perspective or your organization's perspective, because Saskatchewan is serving essentially as the guinea pig in this respect. How are the urban reserve models that your province is seeing put into place working?

[David Marit]

I don't think I'm the right person to comment, but on the rural reserves working with the municipalities, I would say it has come a long way. But there's still a lot of work that has to be done. It's a concern that we have, because to get everybody at the table to negotiate and to work on things.... In many rural municipalities, when it come to infrastructure, it's an issue. When it comes to bylaws, it becomes an issue.

I can see that there has been tremendous movement by first nations just over the last five years, in terms of working with municipalities to try to work out agreements. I would have to say that work has definitely increased tremendously. But for me to comment on urban reserves, I'm sorry, it would be....

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

Thank you, Mr. Marit.

We'll move to Mr. McCallum now, for five minutes.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

In my life before politics, I used to come to Saskatoon often. I always had a great reception here, so the first thing I'd like to do is thank the witnesses for giving me this opportunity to come back again. It's great to be here.

I think the central task of this committee is to recommend to the government what should be in the next budget. This week, there were press reports that we might have a second GST reduction at a cost of some $5 billion to $6 billion a year. And while the GST cut is nice, it does crowd out virtually everything else in the form of income tax cuts or expenditures.

I'd just like to do what I did in Vancouver, which is to have a very quick little poll and ask all of you a question. Do you think the government is on the right track vis-à-vis the GST? I'd just ask you to say yes or no or abstain—no comment—which of course is your right. I'd then like to get on to more specific questions.

Maybe we could begin with Mr. Taylor.

[Colin Taylor]

I already mentioned in our proposal that we think cutting the GST further, in lieu of cutting personal taxes, is probably not the right way to go.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Thank you.

[Lisa Jategaonkar]

I would just say that it is important that we continue to fund research and development to take advantage of future areas. I don't have a specific comment on the GST.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Thank you.

[Marlene Brown]

I have no specific comment on the GST. What we're asking for is an investment in health human resources across the country, and I can't see how that can be funded without....

[Bryan Nylander]

I have no comment.