Finance Committee on Oct. 5th, 2006

[Gord Steeves]

That's a good question, and it's a very fair question.

In the context of representing 1,400 municipalities across Canada, what has happened is that there are varying degrees of need for infrastructure in different spots, and some places have greater needs than others. What was shining through over the course of discussion was that virtually everybody was focusing on, as you said, the hardcore traditional infrastructure components. I would argue that it was a to a lesser extent than the places that were more focused on the roads and bridges and those types of things, but there were some places coming forward and saying that they have an increasing need in that area. As such, it has crept into the discussion of infrastructure and funding and those types of things.

Still, I think it would be fair to say that the Federation of Canadian Municipalities focuses primarily on the traditional idea of roads and bridges and hard infrastructure as the idea for gas tax funding or other programs.

[James Knight]

I just might add a word, and it is that there is strong focus on the health of youth. The increasing obesity and long-term medical analyses suggest the next generation will be the first to actually have a shorter lifespan than the present one. Hence, there's a pretty sharp focus on enhancing recreation opportunities.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Mr. Javed, I just have one little, quick question for you. You mentioned 18%, and I'm just having a mental block here. Over how many years is that? Is it an annual increase of 18%?

[Hamid Javed]

That's right. Don't forget that we are talking about 0.7% of our gross national income, and with this increase of 18% or whatever the level is now, it will take us to 0.7% by 2015.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

I thank you for that.

Do I have time for one further question?

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

You have two minutes.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Oh, I have lots of time.

Mr. Graham, just for my information, I'm not familiar with your organization, as I come from an urban area. Do you also represent not just fertilizer manufacturers, but pesticide manufacturers too?

[Clyde Graham]

No.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

No, that's a separate organization.

Going back to my friends from the cities agenda, you mentioned the fiscal imbalance. We call it the fiscal balance. The previous government didn't mention it at all because they didn't believe in it. Are you satisfied that we are working toward trying to find a solution to the fiscal balance with the provinces? Would you have any suggestions that we could bring to our side of the table in terms of making it happen any quicker?

[Gord Steeves]

Your question was telling and a bit concerning, although I like the area that we're talking about.

We are always concerned about the relationship between the federal government and the provinces—not that we have an issue with that, but we want to ensure that our relationship with the federal government directly is maintained. As you can probably appreciate, with ten provinces and three territories, there are all sorts of problems that can arise if what the federal government is looking to do in terms of helping municipalities has to be ferreted or vetted through provincial or territorial governments.

What we've tried to do is create that direct link so that the needs of municipalities—which, with all due respect to provincial governments and territorial governments, are best represented by municipal governments—can be directly heard by the federal government from municipal governments. So we are very pleased with the attention we've been getting from the federal government. Minister Cannon and Minister Flaherty have been open to receiving us. We've prepared innumerable suggestion papers and policy platforms, so we just want to ensure that this relationship remains strong and clear.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

Thank you, Mr. Wallace.

We'll now move on to Madam Wasylycia-Leis, for seven minutes.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairperson.

Let me just follow up on this, because as you indicated in your brief, there was in fact a commitment in the last federal budget for a fairly in-depth relationship between...I won't say FCM and the federal government, but at least between those interested in dealing with infrastructure and transit, to be included in the whole budget process, as well as in involvement in the fiscal imbalance issue. How has the FCM been included to date?

[Gord Steeves]

We've been invited to numerous meetings with the relevant ministers at this stage, and we've had a chance to sit down on numerous occasions with different ministers, so that has happened. We feel our concerns are on the table and that they've been heard. We've had requests from the federal government for our input on issues that are important to us.

We recognize that in the context of a relatively new federal government, it has to be difficult to balance all of those requests. However, we're optimistic that we're going in the right direction, and we're hoping that all members of Parliament, from all parties, recognize that need and will continue to help us move forward on that file.

So to try to answer your question as directly as possible, I'm optimistic that we're in a decent place with our federal government, but I'm hoping it will continue to improve.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

So you think you're at the right place in a discussion for a budget that will maybe come down in four months or so.

[Gord Steeves]

As I said, we're in the process of working with a variety ministries on their positions for the budget. At this stage, they seem to be, in an integral type of way, asking for our input. We're hoping our concerns and our needs are recognized at the end of the day. We're in the process. That would be as fair as we can put it.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

That's encouraging in light of so much reference from Conservatives to pay down the fiscal debt before we do anything and in light of Jim Flaherty's talk about more tax cuts. We need to hear from you what happens at the municipal level if we don't start addressing, in real ways, the infrastructure debt until we've paid off the whole federal debt. What advice would you have to the government on that?

[Gord Steeves]

I'll ask Jim to comment after I make a few comments.

Our position at the Federation of Canadian Municipalities is that our needs should be able to be met without any net tax increase across the board. We've never advocated a tax increase at any level of government to address our needs.

With the specific reference to a tax cut, it is a bit concerning, to be frank, when we start talking about tax cuts. But if the federal government feels those tax cuts can be made while still addressing our needs, then we take no moment with that. If it were a question of having to choose between tax cuts and our needs not being met, we'd probably ask for the status quo tax-wise and ask for our needs to be met. We just have no indication at this stage that any proposed tax cut will result in us not getting to where we want to go.

[James Knight]

And just as a very brief comment, Minister Flaherty has said clearly that part of addressing the fiscal imbalance is investment in infrastructure. That's one of the techniques that will be used. For us, that was a very positive comment.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

Thank you.

Let me ask a question of Marlene, from the Canadian Nurses Association.

First of all, thank you for your brief. I was very impressed with your holistic approach to health and well-being. I'm going to ask a question on something we've heard a lot about on this finance committee tour, and that is your reference to the importance of literacy to health and well-being in the context of the cuts announced by the government of $17.7 million to literacy programs. Could you comment on what that does in terms of our need to move forward on a health and well-being agenda?

[Dr. Marlene Smadu]

The Canadian Nurses Association is very clear about the importance of investing upstream in terms of the health of Canadians, so we pay a lot of attention to the social determinants of health. Those include education, employability, housing, water, and all of those basic infrastructure supports, and literacy is a key one.

Probably eight years ago, the World Health Organization released research that showed that for every additional year of education that girl children had around the world, the teen pregnancy rate dropped by 10%. That's far more effective than any other tool that we use within the health care system. We have evidence, then, that demonstrates that we need to invest in education, and literacy is a key part of that.

So we absolutely support that. We know that's such an important determinant of health. It does relate to income, but there's a definite translation into the health status of citizens right around the world.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

Thank you.

Let me ask both you, the FCM representatives, and anyone else about the cut also to the whole volunteer initiative, because that also has an impact on health and well-being and life at the municipal level. The Muttart Foundation, which is a well known private charity in Alberta and also reaches into Saskatchewan, has written a scathing letter to the Prime Minister about taking away the very piece one needs to help ensure that we have a volunteer capacity. Are there any comments from FCM or Marlene or anyone else on that one?

[Dr. Marlene Smadu]

The staff at the CNA is certainly studying the cuts in terms of what the impacts are. We recognize that there are sometimes programs that are not effective, and we're very open to the issue of ensuring that everything we do is evidence-based. But clearly, on the issue of literacy, there is much evidence to demonstrate the importance of investing in it for all citizens of Canada.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

Do you have any thoughts? Please go ahead.

[Hamid Javed]

I think any cuts to the voluntary sector are.... Of course, tax money doesn't pay for the volunteers, but it basically enables the voluntary sector to be successful and to be able to provide the services they do.

In my culture, what they call “the salt in the dough” is very important. A very minimal of amount of salt is put in the dough to make the bread. The base money is very important so that the large amount of services and whatever is provided to the society as a whole, in terms of what is needed—

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

Mr. Javed, I must cut you off at this point, because Madam Wasylycia-Leis's time has passed...or at least her time for questions has passed.