Finance Committee on Oct. 18th, 2006

[Diane Ablonczy, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Field, the income trust issue is such a difficult issue. I think you're aware of that. When the former government was dealing with it, many seniors groups complained that it was really going to hurt seniors. Now we're hearing from you today that if income trusts aren't dealt with, it's going to hurt seniors. From the people you talked to in the seniors community, which is the strongest voice in this debate, as far as you know?

[Art Field]

We are just getting involved in this. We have a brief we give out with facts and figures that came from our consultant. I'm not a financial wizard or anything; I'm just the president of National Pensioners and Senior Citizens Federation. Our consultant is telling us some of the problems that could happen or have happened. We're trying to stop the hurt before it gets too far, if that's a fair enough answer.

[Diane Ablonczy, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

That's fair enough.

Mr. Toft, you really touched our hearts with your concern for your son. All of us are parents and we know how you must feel, or at least have some inkling of how you must feel. I think what you're asking for is not a handout, but really just an ability to use your own resources to make sure your son is looked after. Is that what you're saying?

[John Toft]

Yes, and specifically with the ability to put the RRSPs, the RRIFs, and the pensions in a Henson trust, where it would not then affect the provincial benefits.

[Diane Ablonczy, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

This would be a departure, and you're aware of that, but can you give us some criteria where a measure like this wouldn't be abused but would really be used in appropriate circumstances?

[John Toft]

Again, I'm not a tax expert, but I believe the technical parts of this were developed in February, in the 2003 budget, so the groundwork has already been done. Tax experts such as my colleague Ken Pope would be much better able to give information on that kind of question.

[Diane Ablonczy, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

But you have done some background that you can provide.

[John Toft]

Yes.

[Diane Ablonczy, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

Thank you, everyone. Thank you, committee members, for being adaptable in these pressing circumstances. And thank you, panellists, for a job well done. We very much appreciate your being here. You are dismissed. The committee has some business to attend to, so enjoy your trip home.

I have a notice of motion from Mr. McCallum. Mr. McCallum, what is your motion?

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. You all have it before you, so I don't think I need to read it.

We think this is a significant issue and we'd like to invite interested parties to come and speak to us sometime, hopefully before the end of November. So this is the motion we're presenting.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

Is there any discussion?

Madam Ablonczy.

[Diane Ablonczy, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. McCallum is aware that the minister will be in front of the committee for the fiscal update. Would that be an appropriate time for a question like this to come forward?

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

I'm not quite sure what you mean. What we have in mind is to invite maybe three, four or five witnesses from the tourist industry. I don't think the minister would want to share his time with those people.

[Diane Ablonczy, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

You mentioned the minister, so that confused me a little bit.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

I didn't mention the minister, or at least I didn't mean to. What I said was that we would like to invite people to come as witnesses who are interested parties on this issue.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

Monsieur St-Cyr.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

It’s not really necessary that the minister himself appear before the committee. However, one of his representatives could come here to explain amongst other things, how the 3% is calculated. Are we talking about tourists? About money supply? Is it an estimate? How is it calculated? It would be important for us to have more information on this.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

Are there other comments?

Your response, Mr. McCallum.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

That's a very good point. Maybe we were talking at cross purposes. I certainly think that someone from Finance would be here as one of the witnesses, presumably not the minister, to answer questions of that nature.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

Monsieur Paquette.

[Pierre Paquette, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Chair, we get a lot of letters on this subject. It came about quite suddenly. What I’m afraid of is that the ways-and-means motion is tabled before we can have a debate on the subject. We would then be required to vote without even having discussed it.

The registrar could perhaps tell me if it’s possible to ask the government to delay the vote on the ways-and-means motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

While the motion is before us, we'll have discussion on it. Is there any further discussion on the motion?

Mr. Christopherson.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I have a question on a point of order, Mr. Chair.

It's after 5:30 p.m. The committee is supposed to meet until 5:30 p.m. Is the motion and the vote in order?

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

Yes, it's all fine.

Is there any further discussion? Mr. Dykstra.