Evidence of meeting #4 for Finance in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was information.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Pierre Gosselin  Chair, Office of the Chairman, Canadian International Trade Tribunal
Sandra Wing  Senior Deputy Director, Financial Transactions and Reports Analysis Centre of Canada
Paul Dubrule  General Counsel, Legal Services, Financial Transactions and Reports Analysis Centre of Canada

4:05 p.m.

Chair, Office of the Chairman, Canadian International Trade Tribunal

Pierre Gosselin

It was established in 1989.

4:05 p.m.

NDP

Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB

Was it in response to the Canada-U.S. trade agreement?

4:05 p.m.

Chair, Office of the Chairman, Canadian International Trade Tribunal

Pierre Gosselin

No, I think it was in response to the government's desire to bring together a number of small tribunals. There were three: a customs tribunal, a textile and clothing board, and a tribunal that dealt with dumping issues.

Then after the FTA, we were also given the mandate to handle government procurement complaints, so it's really a bringing together of four. That's why the mandates that we have are so diverse.

4:05 p.m.

NDP

Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB

Can you give us a sense of the change in the trend line vis-à-vis countries to which complaints are directed? Can you table us any stats in terms of the number of complaints, number of adjudications, and by sector and country?

4:05 p.m.

Chair, Office of the Chairman, Canadian International Trade Tribunal

Pierre Gosselin

I'm afraid we don't break it out that way. We do it by cases. A case can involve one country or a multiplicity, but we don't break it out by geographic area.

The only geographically related type of case we have concerns the special safeguards for China, which came as a result of China's accession to the WTO—and that's a time-limited provision. We've only had two complaints and one case under the China safeguards.

4:05 p.m.

NDP

Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB

Is there a particular area or sector of the economy where you see more complaints than others? For example, does the textile area still have issues of considerable activity vis-à-vis complaints and adjudication?

4:05 p.m.

Chair, Office of the Chairman, Canadian International Trade Tribunal

Pierre Gosselin

I would say there are two or three areas. One is the steel industry, in which we've had many cases of dumping and subsidy complaints from the Canadian steel industry in past years. We have also had a large number of agricultural complaints.

4:05 p.m.

NDP

Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB

Of what nature were they?

4:10 p.m.

Chair, Office of the Chairman, Canadian International Trade Tribunal

Pierre Gosselin

The most recent is the complaint on grain corn from the United States. It was a dumping and subsidy complaint.

We've had potatoes, apples, raspberries, garlic—quite a salad.

We've done quite a bit of work on textiles in the last few years as well, because the Minister of Finance gave us a standing reference to provide advice when domestic clothing producers were requesting tariff relief on their inputs. Those would be individual cases.

We've also received a number of broad references on textiles from the minister in the last two years.

4:10 p.m.

NDP

Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB

Can you give us an idea of how many requests for advice you might get from the government or the Minister of Finance on a yearly basis, and what kinds of inquiries?

4:10 p.m.

Chair, Office of the Chairman, Canadian International Trade Tribunal

Pierre Gosselin

I'm sorry, on a yearly basis?

4:10 p.m.

NDP

Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB

Or whatever makes sense, to break it down.

4:10 p.m.

Chair, Office of the Chairman, Canadian International Trade Tribunal

Pierre Gosselin

As I said, we've had three textile references from the Minister of Finance in the last two years, one that was particularly broad because it touched all the textile chapters of the tariff and touched on maybe 570 or 580 tariff lines.

We also have a standing reference that he sent us some time ago where we have looked at individual requests for tariff relief by garment producers who wanted access to lower-cost inputs. Those come to us. I think we've had maybe 15 or 20 over the last five or six years since that reference was put in.

These numbers, by the way, are all in the annual report. I may be inaccurate, but the annual report is accurate.

4:10 p.m.

NDP

Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB

This is a weird question, I suppose, but I'd like to know whether or not we're winning as Canadians vis-à-vis trade issues and concerns about fairness in this whole area of international trade. When you look at the number of complaints you deal with, do we succeed through the tribunal in getting justice to the satisfaction of Canadians, and what percentage of the time? What are the consequences or what measures can you take to ensure that justice is handed out?

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Brian Pallister

I'M sorry, this is all the time we have. If it's possible to answer that question briefly, please proceed. If not, we'll go to the next questioner.

4:10 p.m.

Chair, Office of the Chairman, Canadian International Trade Tribunal

Pierre Gosselin

I don't think it's possible to answer it very quickly.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Brian Pallister

Very well, we'll go to Mr. Pacetti.

Your question, sir.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC

You can use up some of my time. I'd like to hear the answer to that.

Basically, what will happen even if the decision is rendered? If there is a foreign party involved, what is your mandate? What are your enforcement powers? How do you enforce the decision?

4:10 p.m.

Chair, Office of the Chairman, Canadian International Trade Tribunal

Pierre Gosselin

Once again, it depends entirely on what kind of case we're talking about. If it's a dumping or subsidy case, the CBSA has already determined that there is a percentage of a margin of dumping or a degree of subsidy, and that's expressed in percentage terms. If we find injury on that complaint, then automatically the CBSA will apply that tax.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC

Who is the CBSA?

4:10 p.m.

Chair, Office of the Chairman, Canadian International Trade Tribunal

Pierre Gosselin

It's the Canada Border Services Agency. So it will be an additional tax imposed on imports of that particular product. That's automatic.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC

But if there's something that's retroactive, do you have any fining powers, or can you go and get money retroactively if a decision were to be rendered in that vein?

4:10 p.m.

Chair, Office of the Chairman, Canadian International Trade Tribunal

Pierre Gosselin

It's not retroactive beyond the reach of the complaint--in other words, when the complaint is filed. So the moment the Canada Border Services Agency finds that there is dumping or subsidy, they will impose a preliminary duty, if we find that there is preliminary entry.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC

So if they've been dumping for the last three or four years, there wouldn't be any action taken against them.

4:15 p.m.

Chair, Office of the Chairman, Canadian International Trade Tribunal

Pierre Gosselin

No. It doesn't reach back.