Thank you.
I'm looking at the figure of $13 billion against the debt, and, as Ian Johnson said, there is an alternative budget. The last one I looked at said, let's put $8 billion against the debt and let's look at social programs, health and education re: funding or funding new initiatives.
A balance is required. It is also, as I said earlier, a political and even an ideological question, in my view. It's a choice. We have a choice as to where we put the money. One of the things that really disturbs me, as an anti-poverty activist, is the cutback in literacy programs. Again, one of the things we have to come to grips with is that as we move into a job market that seems to be dichotomizing, if you will, to jobs that require technical skills, that require a significant education...on the other hand, we're creating jobs at the other end, and they're in the service sector. They're low-paying. They're not a way out of poverty.
On literacy and post-secondary education, if you look at Statistics Canada figures, year after year after year, the best indicator of getting people out of poverty is education.