Finance Committee on Oct. 31st, 2006

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

I have two comments.

First, when Dr. Vaillancourt was here last time, I think he lamented his lack of resources with respect to econometric modelling, and so his commentary was largely derived from other information that was in the public realm.

The second comment has to do with the University of Toronto, which I understand has very sophisticated econometric modelling. I think they should be included.

The third comment is that essentially this information is useful only if it's provided prior to the appearance of the minister. If in fact this material is to be generated, it should be generated prior to the minister's appearance, so may I ask the parliamentary secretary if she can be any more specific as to when the minister would like to do his November update? We could work backwards from a date like that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

We'll continue with Mr. McCallum, Mr. Pacetti, and Madam Ablonczy.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

My colleague took the point I was going to say, which is fine. I just want to repeat it. It is that if we're going to have an independent view of our own, it is important we hear these alternative forecasts before we hear the minister.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

Mr. Pacetti is next.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There are just a couple of issues.

The first issue is that it doesn't say “interim”, so I would propose a friendly amendment to make it read, “an interim program of quarterly independent fiscal forecasts”.

Second, I have a problem because there's no cost attached to this. I remember dealing with these independent forecasters. We can get the costs down, but I think we should at least put the cost in. I don't remember what the cost was, but I think it went down exponentially as we took out contracts with them, whether it was for one or two quarters, because there's some work involved for the forecasters before they can do this type of work.

I understand that the committee is busy. We've been working quite hard. I don't see why we should just not have time to have another meeting, if need be, but we can always get summaries prepared by these independent forecasters.

I suggest that maybe another friendly amendment would allow all parties to submit names, and then perhaps the research staff could decide which four we should pick.

That's it. Those are my points.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

Thank you, Mr. Pacetti.

I think the motion covers the issue of who would be involved. It's self-explanatory. I think it addresses that concern.

As for the others, I'll review the friendly amendments that have been proposed and invite Madam Wasylycia-Leis to respond, following Madam Ablonczy's and Mr. Dykstra's comments.

Madam Ablonczy is next.

[Diane Ablonczy, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

I have two points, Mr. Chair.

One is that a date has not been set for the fall update, but it will be sometime this month.

Secondly, the parliamentary budget office is in the Federal Accountability Act, which is still being held up. If that act passes, then the parliamentary budget office will be enshrined in legislation, which I think is what Madam Wasylycia-Leis is looking for and which the intent of this motion is focused on as well.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Dykstra is next.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

I just wanted to be clear on Mr. Pacetti's amendment.

Is your amendment suggesting that we not have names of organizations, but that we determine a list and then have the clerk decide?

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

I'm sorry, Mr. Dykstra, I can't permit discussion between two members--

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

Through you--

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

--on a potential amendment that has not been presented to the committee. If you'd like to speak to the actual motion--

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

Then I would present that amendment. I would present it as a friendly amendment.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

What is the amendment, again?

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

It is that in the motion we not be specific as to which organizations present, but that we put a list together and give it to the clerk to determine who is best or who should be presenting.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

Just to assist Madam Wasylycia-Leis--

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

All it does is--

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

No, thank you; that's good.

That's list preparation. Okay, we've got three or four different friendly amendment requests. We'll go through them, Madam Wasylycia-Leis, one at a time. If you accept them, then that expedites the process nicely.

Mr. Wallace asked for a friendly amendment to allow your motion to read not in November but by year end. I think I can safely assume that if you agree with Mr. McCallum's subsequent suggestion that the group appear before the finance committee prior to the finance minister, you won't agree with Mr. Wallace's friendly amendment.

Is that correct?

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

Correct.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

Thank you.

As to Mr. Pacetti's friendly amendment, which was in respect of the preparation of lists, and I would take Mr. Dykstra's in tandem with that, the amendment would be modified so that it gives the committee the ability, through the clerk, to submit names and for us to determine the list of participants. Would you be amenable to that friendly amendment?

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

With all due respect, I would suggest that's redundant to the motion as it now reads, which lists the previous names and forecasters but also says “or other independent forecasters, as determined by the finance committee”, which means the suggestions put forward today or subsequently will be taken under advisement by the clerk.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

Thank you. Well stated, Madam Wasylycia-Leis, that any references to these two friendly amendments are unnecessary by your wording and your motion. That's quite correct, in my opinion.

Now, you have also had a friendly amendment from Mr. McCallum that would involve stating “before the Finance Committee, prior to the presentation by the minister or the appearance of the Minister”. Would you agree with that friendly amendment? The last sentence says “in November”, and this would simply be altered, I believe, by Mr. McCallum.

Mr. McCallum, I don't want to misrepresent your--

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

You expressed it very well.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

Thank you, sir.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

As I understand it, then, it's a change in two places, one would be saying not necessarily an appearance, but initial presentation to the finance committee before the minister brings forward his quarterly--