Finance Committee on Feb. 20th, 2007

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Massimo Pacetti]

We are at amendment NDP-22, page 57 of your package, reference number 2711576.

[An hon. member]

Apply the vote.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Massimo Pacetti]

Apply? That's fine.

Where is she, on the...?

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Telephone.

(Amendment negatived) [See Minutes of Proceedings]

(Clauses 280 to 325 inclusive agreed to)

(On clause 326)

We're on amendment G-13, page 58 of your package.

Ms. Ablonczy.

[Diane Ablonczy, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

It's impacted by G-3.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Massimo Pacetti]

All right.

(Amendment agreed to) [See Minutes of Proceedings]

(Clause 326 as amended agreed to.)

(Clauses 327 to 360 inclusive agreed to)

(On clause 361)

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Massimo Pacetti]

We have amendment G-14, page 60.

(Amendment agreed to) [See Minutes of Proceedings]

(Clause 361 as amended agreed to)

(Clause 362 agreed to)

(On clause 363)

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Massimo Pacetti]

We have amendment G-15, page 62.

Ms. Ablonczy, is this the same one?

[Diane Ablonczy, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

This is another clause impacted by amendment G-1, which was passed.

(Amendment agreed to) [See Minutes of Proceedings]

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Massimo Pacetti]

That means we're now looking at NDP-23.

We can apply, unless there's disagreement from the mover.

(Amendment negatived) [See Minutes of Proceedings]

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

We are at NDP-24.

Since we're at it, we're going to apply? Okay.

(Amendment negatived) [See Minutes of Proceedings]

(Clause 363 as amended agreed to)

(Clauses 364 and 365 agreed to)

(On clause 366)

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Massimo Pacetti]

We are now at NDP-25, which is page 66 in your package.

We'll apply, so that's defeated.

(Amendment negatived) [See Minutes of Proceedings]

(Clause 366 agreed to)

(On clause 367)

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Massimo Pacetti]

We are now at NDP-26.

(Amendment agreed to) [See Minutes of Proceedings]

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Massimo Pacetti]

Amendment NDP-27 is defeated, if we use the method of applying to the previous vote.

(Amendment negatived) [See Minutes of Proceedings]

(Clause 367 as amended agreed to)

(Clauses 368 to 370 inclusive agreed to)

(On clause 371)

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Massimo Pacetti]

Now we're on amendment G-16, which is page 70 of your package.

[Diane Ablonczy, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

It's affected by G-3, which was passed.

(Amendment agreed to) [See Minutes of Proceedings]

(Clause 371 as amended agreed to.)

(Sections 372 to 435 inclusive agreed to.)

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Massimo Pacetti]

I believe it is faster in French. My problem is that I think in Italian.

We're at NDP-28, which affects clause 436, page 72. There's a number on this one.

Ms. Wasylycia-Leis, would you like to speak to this one?

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

Yes, I would. This is a new one, folks. You have a chance to support one more of my amendments. This is a very reasonable amendment, increasing the fines for bank violations from $200,000 to $500,000.

Let me finish my remarks, Mr. Wallace.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

I just put my hand up to get on the list.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

As you will know from the testimony, there does not appear to be much incentive for the banks not to violate the Bank Act. We heard of hundreds and hundreds of violations. I'm still waiting for the actual information from the FCAC. I'm not sure if we've received it here. I understand there's a chart in my office that has come through, but just talking on the phone it's very hard to actually get at how many banks have been in violation. I would assume that all the major banks have been in violation at one point or another. We're dealing with a significant number of charges between 2001 and the present, and it seems to me that as a committee we have to deal with this in a way that means something and has an impact. If $200,000 doesn't do it, others have suggested, as we heard in testimony, going as high as $50 million. I'm not here to suggest we go that high, but I am saying it has to be more than $200,000 to have an impact.

Given the profits of the banks this year, $19 billion, given the ability of one bank to give a bonus to one CEO of $4 million to $5 million, on top of a $1 million to $2 million salary, I suggest that in fact our system of protecting the consumer and ensuring essential services are available where they're needed is not working and we've got to do something that makes it work.

So this is my last attempt in this bill. I realize I didn't have much support for many of the other amendments, and we've got a lot of work to do as a committee, but I would hope that perhaps this last one would see some support.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Massimo Pacetti]

In terms of information, the clerk just got the information from the Financial Consumer Agency, so we'll be—

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

I saw that chart. I can't read it.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Massimo Pacetti]

So you'll be getting it, because I don't think it has been translated.

Okay, we're going to go to Mr. Wallace, then Ms. Ablonczy and Mr. Thibault, and then Mr. McCallum.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I'm encouraging members of the committee to vote against the change. It sounds great that it's half a million dollars, but I want to remind the committee that this recommendation we have in front of us, which is actually in the bill, goes from $100,000 to $200,000, which is a 100% increase already in the fines, and I think that is a significant enough change at this particular time that we don't need to be making such a drastic move. We'd be way out of line with other administrative fees or penalties that we have within other legislation, and I think that would put the Bank Act out of line with other penalty regimes that we have as the federal government.