Evidence of meeting #74 for Finance in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was million.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

William Baker  Deputy Commissioner and Chief Operating Officer, Canada Revenue Agency
James Ralston  Chief Financial Officer and Assistant Commissioner, Finance and Administration Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
Julie Dickson  Acting Superintendent of Financial Institutions, Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions Canada
Michèle Bridges  Director of Finance, Finance and Corporate Planning Division, Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions Canada

12:15 p.m.

Acting Superintendent of Financial Institutions, Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions Canada

Julie Dickson

The Basel II accord is an international agreement among bank supervisors to change the way capital requirements are developed and calculated for banks. Up to this point in time, all banks had the same rules, called Basel I. They were not very risk-sensitive, so that if the bank was lending to a corporation that was rather weak or a corporation that was really strong, the capital charge was the same for both. Under Basel II, a lot of work has gone into developing more risk-sensitive requirements. A lot of mathematics goes into this.

In addition, there were a lot of requirements that banks have a lot more data to look at the types of risk they take, and there were more requirements for boards of directors and managers to have more information about how the bank is performing when it makes loans.

In terms of OSFI's role, we had to create a number of new systems so that we could receive a lot more data from the institutions, and we could slice and dice it to look at what was really happening and to come to some understanding with the banks as to what each bank's capital level ought to be. It's fairly important, because going forward under this new regime, some banks may have to increase their capital and some banks might see a decrease in their capital. That's a fairly important thing.

All of our work now is designed to ensure that we understand each bank's system, how they're coming up with their numbers, so that we can make a final determination as to whether their capital levels at the end of the day are acceptable.

12:20 p.m.

Bloc

Pierre Paquette Bloc Joliette, QC

You also mentioned in your speech that you recover most of your expenses from financial institutions' revenues. Is this done through a billing system for services provided by the office? How does it work exactly?

12:20 p.m.

Acting Superintendent of Financial Institutions, Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions Canada

Julie Dickson

In regulations there are formulas set out that are basically based on size of institution, so for a large bank, you look at their total assets and you take OSFI's costs, and the formula will tell you how much of those costs the banking industry will pay, how much of the cost the insurance industry will pay, how much of the cost the pension plans will pay, and—

12:20 p.m.

Bloc

Pierre Paquette Bloc Joliette, QC

Yes, go ahead.

12:20 p.m.

Acting Superintendent of Financial Institutions, Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions Canada

Julie Dickson

—then we send a bill to the financial institutions, which they must pay. We do meet with the institutions at least once a year to talk about our costs. We meet with the industry associations frequently, but we do have meetings where we explain our costs, why they've increased, and what they might expect down the road, because they of course keep a close eye on our costs, given that they pay the bills at the end of the day.

12:20 p.m.

Bloc

Pierre Paquette Bloc Joliette, QC

I assume that the 6.5% increase in costs, which is considerably higher than the rate of inflation, must have drawn the attention of banks, did it not?

12:20 p.m.

Acting Superintendent of Financial Institutions, Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions Canada

Julie Dickson

We will be meeting with the banks next month to talk about the 6.5% increase. Part of that increase reflects the fact that we did not spend as much money last year as we told them we would spend. We had a number of vacancies, particularly in the Toronto office, which we're now moving to fill, which contribute to the 6.5% increase in costs this year. The Basel II they're fully aware of. They've been aware of that since day one, because we've communicated with them a lot about our costs on the Basel II front.

As well, they are paying for some additional resources in areas like anti-money laundering and accounting, which are big issues in the banking sector now. And they will be paying for enhanced governance at OSFI, so they will end up paying for the audit committee that we have created and the internal audit unit that we have staffed up as well.

12:20 p.m.

Bloc

Pierre Paquette Bloc Joliette, QC

I would have one last question, Mr. Chair. Do I have any time left?

12:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Brian Pallister

Sorry, Mr. Paquette, you do not. We will continue with Mr. Wallace.

12:20 p.m.

Conservative

Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I'm going to stick to the estimates. I appreciate the overview of some of the work that the organization does, but I want to be clear. Your document to us talks about a 6.5% increase, but in the actual estimates, it's got a 2% increase. Can you explain for me what the difference is there, why it's different?

12:20 p.m.

Acting Superintendent of Financial Institutions, Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions Canada

Julie Dickson

Because OSFI is funded primarily by financial institutions and pension plans, the appropriation is a very small number, and it's only for the Office of the Chief Actuary, so the appropriation number you see in there is only for the Office of the Chief Actuary, which is housed within OSFI but is independent.

12:20 p.m.

Conservative

Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON

Okay, so the two points that you're looking for is actual tax dollars.

12:20 p.m.

Acting Superintendent of Financial Institutions, Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions Canada

12:20 p.m.

Conservative

Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON

The rest that makes up the difference is paid for by the organizations that you do work for, basically. Is the 6.5%, year over year, actual or is that budgetary?

12:20 p.m.

Acting Superintendent of Financial Institutions, Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions Canada

Julie Dickson

It's budgetary.

12:20 p.m.

Conservative

Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON

Okay, so based on last year's budget, what was your actual? Were you below?

12:25 p.m.

Acting Superintendent of Financial Institutions, Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions Canada

Julie Dickson

Yes, 1.4% or 1.6%.

12:25 p.m.

Conservative

Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON

So you were close, but you were underneath.

12:25 p.m.

Acting Superintendent of Financial Institutions, Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions Canada

12:25 p.m.

Conservative

Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON

And then the increase you're looking at this year--I think you just explained it but I want to be clear--is because.... I'm assuming most of your fees or your costs are staffing—

12:25 p.m.

Acting Superintendent of Financial Institutions, Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions Canada

Julie Dickson

Yes, primarily.

12:25 p.m.

Conservative

Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON

—and there were vacancies, and they're being filled in this calendar year, thus they have to be reflected in this budget.

12:25 p.m.

Acting Superintendent of Financial Institutions, Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions Canada

Julie Dickson

That's exactly it.

12:25 p.m.

Conservative

Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON

Were those positions reflected in last year's budget, or did you reflect them in the budget as empty, as not filled?

12:25 p.m.

Acting Superintendent of Financial Institutions, Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions Canada

Julie Dickson

Those were positions in the budget, but they were empty last year.