Finance Committee on March 29th, 2007

[Pierre Gosselin]

It's very difficult for us to tell ahead of time what our costs are going to be for the two programs. In fact, next year we hope to have only one program so we don't have to make this division. We don't generate the work; we receive cases, whether they're dumping cases or safeguards or procurement cases or general inquiries from other people, either from the private sector or from the government. So we annually make a guesstimate based on past practice and on what we think the future holds.

We have to deal with cases as soon as they're filed with us, and within a very tight timeframe. We can't say that we'll put something off until next year because we're busy now. We have to treat cases as soon as they occur. So we've made a relatively arbitrary division, based on our experience in the past.

[Diane Ablonczy, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

Thank you very much, Madam Ablonczy.

We'll move to Madam Wasylycia-Leis now.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairperson.

Thank you all for being here.

First I have a question to Mr. Gosselin. It's along the lines of the question my colleague Mr. Paquette asked, about who can actually appear before the tribunal. As I understand it, only organizations representing businesses are able to do so.

[Pierre Gosselin]

That's not a simple question, in the sense that we have several mandates, and it depends on which mandate you're talking about. If it's as Mr. Paquette was talking about, in the area of dumping or in the area of safeguards, then yes, it's producers, and that's the term in legislation. However, in a number of our other mandates, like government procurement complaints or appeals from decisions by CRA or CBSA, then individuals can appear.

I should also point out that labour groups or associations, if they are representing the interests of the producers, can also appear. But in the case that he was referring to, it was not clear to the tribunal that they were in fact representing or mandated to represent the interests of the producers.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

Would it be possible to have a situation in which a labour organization might have a concern about dumping or about any of the issues you've mentioned, but might be at odds with how this is being represented by the producer organization?

[Pierre Gosselin]

We've had instances in which trade unions or consumer organizations have appeared before us on one side or the other of the issues, and that's fine. We can easily do that. What they can't do is bring the case themselves, unless they are representing the industry.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

What if one was an individual producer but not a member of one of these umbrella organizations, and his or her concerns were not being pursued by the organizations? Is it virtually impossible then to bring that issue forward?

[Pierre Gosselin]

Again, we have to be clear. If we are talking about dumping, an individual company can bring a case if they can demonstrate that they represent a significant part of the industry. They don't even have to represent a majority, but they have to be a very significant part.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

I want to zero in on one other issue, and that is the whole issue of textiles.

I know from your mission statement that you have the ability to take tariff references from the Minister of Finance and investigate requests from producers for tariff relief on imported textile inputs. I'm just wondering how broad that really is. Are you able to take, for example, some of the concerns raised by the international trade committee of the House of Commons concerning textiles vis-à-vis China and the fact that Canada has not moved to place limitations through the World Trade Organization, as other countries have? Is there a role you play in that regard? Is there advice you give to the minister?

This is a case of a serious economic problem: loss of jobs. For some reason, Canada has not done what other countries appear to have done. Is there a reason for that, and what can you do about it?

[Pierre Gosselin]

Again, our jurisdiction really flows from the complaint. In this instance, the Minister of Finance or the Governor in Council can refer to us questions on textiles, for instance, or on tariff simplification or tariff reductions. But if one of those two bodies doesn't make a reference to us, we can't act.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

Has the Minister of Finance given you a reference on this particular issue?

[Pierre Gosselin]

We have done quite a bit of work for the Minister of Finance. We have had three major tariff references on textiles and clothing, and we have a standing reference from the minister whereby any producer organization can ask for tariff relief for downstream clothing production. In other words, if they want to pay less tax on the import of their raw materials, because this will favour their downstream business, they can ask for a tariff reduction.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

So I would assume all the producer organizations involved in textiles have been at your door, either directly or through the minister, hopefully, regarding the importation from China and the fact that, as I understand it, the WTO allows member countries to impose limits on the growth of specific categories of Chinese clothing imports. They could be limited to 7.5% growth per year, but Canada has not taken advantage of that.

That's an obvious solution if they come knocking at your door. So who's in charge of executing the solution?

[Pierre Gosselin]

First of all, somebody has to come knocking at our door, and to date no one has. If the question is to be put, it really has to be put to the Minister of Finance or the Minister of International Trade as to whether or not they want to take action.

Industry groups, producer groups, can come directly as well, and to date the clothing industry or the textile industry has not come to file a complaint with the tribunal.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

We continue with Mr. Pacetti, for five minutes.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Thank you.

For the Canadian International Trade Tribunal, I think you know where I'm going to go with this. How many times a year do you appear before the parliamentary committees?

[Pierre Gosselin]

I'm sorry, I--

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

How many times a year do you appear before the parliamentary committees? I think you only appeared--

[Pierre Gosselin]

Once last year, and once before the finance committee.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Yes, and it's usually for the estimates or the supplementary estimates, if I'm not mistaken.

[Pierre Gosselin]

Yes, but also we appeared before the international trade committee to talk about our program.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

When you appear for the estimates, do you think I'm going outside the bounds to ask for some information? We don't have one piece of paper. I could understand if you appeared continuously before the committee, but this is for the estimates. It's not acceptable. We don't have any information as to what these estimates are for.

[Pierre Gosselin]

The committee certainly has not asked us to produce any paper other than the estimate request.

When we appeared last year, we produced our annual report and a number of other explanations of how the tribunal functions. Frankly, I didn't realize this was something the committee was looking for.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

Perhaps Mr. Pacetti would like to be somewhat more specific on what information he might be looking for.