Thank you, Mr. Chairperson, and thank you to all the panellists for your patience as we go back and forth to the House for these votes.
I really appreciate the panel today. I think this is going to be very important as we sort through the whole issue of electronic banking and ATM fees.
I also wanted to particularly thank Andrew Douglas and Jerry Buckland for coming today and giving some validity to what I have been harping at for many months—maybe years—here at the committee and in the House. I'm not sure everyone always believed me when I talked about a community as large as north end Winnipeg that has been abandoned by the banks, where we've seen 10 bank closures over the last decade, and where in fact the choices are payday lenders and other fringe financial institutions or private label ATMs, basically. We have two credit unions. We have one that is restricted in terms of membership. One is Polish and one is Ukrainian; one is open, and one is closed. And that's it.
As a result, the community really fought back against all these bank closures, without success, except that we got a little bit of money from the last bank closure, from CIBC, to help start a study into an alternative financial community services centre. That centre is now up and running. Andrew Douglas mentioned it; Jerry Buckland was instrumental in its formation. It probably is the first of its kind in the country and it's playing a vital role where the banks have failed us.
I wanted to say that, and I wanted Andrew and Jerry to talk for a minute about this.
You've heard now, as you sat through this, the whole notion that we need choice and competition. That's the mantra of the government side, and I think maybe of the Liberals too, from what I've heard today, regardless of which people fall between the cracks. And you've heard a lot about unintended consequences: that if we do this, or reduce fees, or put some pressure on the banks to change that or be more accountable, there's going to be this huge falling out in terms of access for consumers.
And yet no one of that group and others has talked about the unintended consequences of a system that has allowed banks to shut down their branches willy-nilly, take away their ATMs, and leave private label machines that charge up to $6.15 per transaction.
I think it's about time we heard from some folks at this table who think it's okay to have this system how they can explain and account for that kind of charge—especially the Consumers' Association of Canada, which claims to represent consumers—when it is happening in areas where in fact seniors and low-income people are taking 20 or 30 bucks out of a private label machine and are charged up to $6.15.
Let me start with Andrew and Jerry, and if time permits—I hope there's time—I could hear some accountability from the others on those questions.