Merci. I'll make just a couple of points and then put one question.
One is on the question of the use of fees to attract customers. If I go to a consumer cooperative and buy products and am not a member, I'm going to pay more at the end of the year than somebody who's a member, so I could look at that as a fee. That fee isn't based on their marginal cost of providing me service; it's a method that's used to encourage me to join their cooperative. I think we find that to be generally acceptable. So to say that the fees instituted for servicing somebody who isn't necessarily your customer have to be at the marginal cost of giving the person that service.... I don't know that this should apply; I don't know that it's a logical argument to make.
The question of gouging is important. That question is whether a consumer who doesn't have a choice but to deal with you, and you're gouging them.... That, I think, is good.
As for Mr. Conacher and pointing to the U.S. banking system, I think a lot of consumers of the banking system in the U.S. look to Canada for inspiration. In the service we have in Canada from our banking systems, credit unions, chartered banks, and other services, and our electronic transfer capabilities from coast to coast and internationally, I think we're quite well served in comparison with the United States, and many would agree.
Now I want to get to the fees. I've seen, in my personal experience, getting access for zero per transaction; I've seen paying $1 and $1.50 per transaction. I understand that in restaurants or bars or casinos or late-night activities people have paid $2.50 or $3 per transaction. I've never heard of the $6 charge that Madam Wasylycia-Leis points out.
Is there an example of people, communities, being forced to use Interac machines or ATM machines without competition at that level of charges? Does that exist in our country?
Perhaps I'll ask Mr. O'Connell and Mr. Trigg to respond.