Well, is anyone here refuting what expert witnesses have said to this committee in terms of about a 27¢ or 30¢ cost per transaction and another 2¢ to 15¢ Interac fee, which means you're looking at about 40¢ per transaction? All of you, as banks, charge up to $5.15, if you apply every single cost. That is a mark-up of what, 500% or 600% or more? It seems to me that it's well beyond the notion of gouging. Gouging is after 15% or 20%, is it not?
You have a situation where you're not prepared to give Canadians the facts, but you're prepared to keep doing this without explanation and without due regard for people's right to access their own money without serious penalty.