Evidence of meeting #77 for Finance in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was banks.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON
Is there any member of the panel who would disagree with that observation? I didn't think so.
I guess we're into the category of “be careful what you ask for”. If in fact certain parties wish to ask for the abolition of ABM fees, they may get things they really didn't intend to get.
Thank you.
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate having a second round.
I'm absolutely amazed by some of the questions you were asked here today, particularly about costs. I think some people around the table think that the banking system in this country is a public service and not a for-profit business.
The banks were asked if they would disclose their costs. Would you then expect this committee to ask the grocery business to disclose their costs, so we would know that they were charging the proper prices for milk, bread, and all the other essentials of life? Would you expect us to ask the companies that retail clothing to provide their costs to make sure the public wasn't getting gouged, as some people would like to say, on the cost of certain clothing?
We've heard this morning and over the last few weeks that the banks have a special relationship with the Government of Canada. There has been an implication that you can sort of get anything you want.
I clearly recall that I disagreed with bankers on one issue in particular, and that was selling insurance through the branches. Could you remind me whether this government has made a comment on whether you're allowed to sell insurance through the branches?
Any of the bankers can feel free to answer that question.
12:45 p.m.
Group Head, Canadian Banking, Royal Bank of Canada
Notwithstanding that we would still like that to occur, so far it has not happened. We are prohibited from selling insurance.
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
So the Government of Canada, including this party that I so happily belong to, has been opposed to allowing that to happen, and you haven't been able to implement that. Is that not correct?
Is it not be fair to say that if we are willing to ask the banking industry to provide government their cost structures on their services, the next logical step is that we should ask everybody for that? Would you like to comment on that, sir, since you brought it up?
They don't want to comment on it because they don't want to get in trouble, but I will comment on it because this is my time. I don't think it's appropriate.
I don't know if Judy's motion is regulating just the banks, the white labels, or what she's doing with her motion--even though they're only 30% of the market.
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
12:45 p.m.
NDP
Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB
Jim Westlake, I left off with you. Since your boss, Gord Nixon, who makes $11.9 million annually, suggested I was playing politics by raising this concern of consumers, can you tell me why it is so difficult to understand this notion of service to Canadians, especially when you make all your money from customers? How can you not think about giving a little bit back?
12:45 p.m.
Group Head, Canadian Banking, Royal Bank of Canada
Thank you for that question.
12:45 p.m.
NDP
Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB
But very quickly, are you prepared to give a little bit back?
12:45 p.m.
Group Head, Canadian Banking, Royal Bank of Canada
Not only do we as an institution give a great deal back, so do our 60,000 employees. We are in every community in Canada. We donate more of our earnings than any other company in Canada to all of the causes in every riding in Canada—
12:45 p.m.
NDP
Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB
I'm wondering about ATM fees. Would you be prepared to give a little bit back on ATM fees?
12:45 p.m.
Group Head, Canadian Banking, Royal Bank of Canada
We do not want to change ATM fees.
12:45 p.m.
NDP
12:45 p.m.
Group Head, Canadian Banking, Royal Bank of Canada
We won't comment on that.
12:45 p.m.
NDP
12:45 p.m.
A voice
He didn't say that.
12:45 p.m.
NDP
Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB
Yes, he did. Earlier Mr. Westlake said he can't possibly figure out all the different costs associated with the ATM service, even though the Canadian Bankers Association has said you actually don't cross-subsidize any of your operations. So you should know your costs. How do you set your price if you don't know your costs?
12:45 p.m.
Group Head, Canadian Banking, Royal Bank of Canada
The primary purpose of the ATM network is not to collect fees and make a profit; it's to service our own clients. We put them out as an option for our clients to use, and 80% of them use them at no cost.
12:45 p.m.
NDP
Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB
But my question is just to get some basic information, because contrary to my Conservative colleagues, I think Canadians have a right to know this information.
When you and others say that if this bill goes through you will shut down ATMs or close banks, are you threatening Canadians who want to see a break on this front and don't want to be nickeled and dimed to access their own money?
12:45 p.m.
Group Head, Canadian Banking, Royal Bank of Canada
We're supporting our 12 million clients by giving them maximum flexibility, choice, and trying to be the best bank we can for them.
