Okay. I think that should concern members of the committee who are concerned with access to these services.
Of course when there were no such machines, there were no fees. I think that would be a fair point to make as well. Canadians didn't have the advantage a number of years ago of having ATMs. So any regulation this committee might recommend that would reduce the availability of such machines under the guise of reducing fees should consider that if there were no machines at all, there would be no fees.
However, I am interested in the level of the fees. The substitution effect that other witnesses have testified to, I think, is probably a reality. I want some comment on it. Witnesses have testified to the fact that there is a non-client charge--that the vast majority of users pay no fee, but some do pay a fee. Would the consequence of free access to the network result in an erosive effect on your client base? Is this part of the rationale of maintaining a fee for non-client use?
Mr. Hockey.