Finance Committee on Nov. 13th, 2007

[Garth Turner, Liberal, Halton, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I agree with my colleagues from the Bloc in this instance. I may be showing my age here, but I remember when we had committees that acted in a much more independent fashion. It would have been unthinkable for a parliamentary secretary to really sit on a committee that planned the activities of a committee going forward, because the parliamentary secretary--no offence to the current one here--is really a mouthpiece for the minister.

This committee is supposed to act independently. It reports to the House of Commons, not the Government of Canada.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

I made that point prior to your getting here. But we intend to run the committee so it reports to Parliament.

Are you finished with that point?

[Garth Turner, Liberal, Halton, ON]

I guess so.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Mike.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

The clarification here is on the removal of the parliamentary secretary. We have two vice-chairs from the opposition party and a member of the other opposition party, so that means they're all opposition members. Nobody from the government sat on this committee, other than the chair. If you are going to replace the parliamentary secretary in this committee, I think it's only fair--and based on the comments of my colleague who just spoke--that we have somebody from the government side at this committee. I think the chair should stay neutral.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Ted.

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

Well, perhaps it would be suggested that I should stay neutral, but I didn't suggest that and the chair actually recognized me, so I shall continue.

Not that I'm looking for more committees to sit on, but let's bear in mind I'm only one vote on this committee. As the minister's representative, and to have an understanding what direction the committee is taking and to help make sure that we actually can get some proper things done at this committee, I would suggest that I think it's only appropriate that the parliamentary secretary sit there to help carry the burden of all the other members.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Okay, I just have a point about a steering committee. First of all, hopefully they're not used too terribly much. Hopefully we can agree on the direction of the committee here. When you do get into the steering committee, it's not so much by vote, but by consensus. Hopefully it's a way of getting around roadblocks when we can't agree here on the exact direction of committee.

Thomas, go ahead.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

Mr. Chairman, I simply want to say that I support the Bloc québécois on this issue. I find it completely inappropriate for the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance to sit on the steering committee. It has already been established that one person per party be present, and it should stay that way. This would be a change to what existed before.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Okay, we've gone around.

Dean.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

I just want to point out for the benefit of committee members that the previous parliamentary secretary, Madam Ablonczy, did sit on the steering committee. This is not a new change. She was most certainly our representative on the steering committee. I don't think that negatively affected the operations of the steering committee. I actually thought the steering committee worked quite well. With all due respect to the opposition members, I fail to see the problem with Mr. Menzies being the government representative on the steering committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Okay.

Mike.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and just to quote Marleau and Montpetit:

Where committees have agreed to establish subcommittees on agenda and procedure (steering committees), their memberships have varied considerably to suit the needs of individual committees. This subcommittee typically consists of the chair of the committee, the vice-chairs, representatives of each of the other recognized parties and, on committees having a departmental responsibility, the parliamentary secretary.

So it's there in writing that this is the way we've done it. We've done it, to my understanding, this way for many moons and I don't see why we should be moving off it today.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Okay, we're not going to go round and round forever on this, because you get into steering committees only to try to build consensus to help move a committee along and hopefully we don't have to do that much. That's not the biggest issue in the world.

Anyway, Paul, go ahead.

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

I am ready to vote on the motion. The text that Mr. Wallace read corresponds exactly to the way we do it. He was talking about the chair, the vice-chairs and the other parties and the fact that all the parties would be represented. That is exactly the way we do it if we remove the Parliamentary Secretary from this list. If it is necessary for him to sit on the steering committee to talk to us about a specific topic or to convey information that the Department wants to give us, we could invite him as a resource person. However, during official meetings and decision making, the members of the committee who shall be present are those provided for. We can vote on this if necessary. The opinion of each party is well known.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Okay, let's put this to a vote.

(Motion negatived)

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Okay, it is deemed that we will change it so that he is out.

What's that?

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

I move another motion on that item.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

On this item?

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Yes. If the parliamentary secretary is not there, I'd like to move that a member of the governing party be—other than the parliamentary secretary.

(Motion negatived)

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Let's move on to item three.

Do you have another motion on this one?

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

No, for item three.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Okay, go ahead.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

My experience at the ethics and access to information and privacy committee is that when there's no quorum we only receive and publish evidence. It says “three members are present, including one member of the opposition”. I would like to see it include one member of the government, and we've done that before.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

So what you're saying is to have one member of the opposition and one member of the government.