Finance Committee on Feb. 3rd, 2009

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Chair, I guess the only concern is that if we do decide we need extra meetings, that's when we run into a real problem. I would certainly support Massimo on this, as it's a lot handier, but it's not our choice. I realize that's up to the room availability.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Okay. We have a full two-hour slot today and we've gone through the election of the chair and vice-chairs and routine motions.

The clerk has informed me that the supplementary estimates (B) have been referred to this committee. I don't know if there's a time limit on returning those back to the House. Obviously, talk to your leaders and whips with respect to those estimates as to what you would like this committee to do.

We have possible studies recommended by members. We passed the subcommittee motion, so we can have that, but we have a meeting on Thursday as well, and I'm open to hearing suggestions from members as to what we should study.

Mr. McCallum.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

I would think that the parliamentary budget officer has done a lot of useful analysis of the budget, and it would be a good idea to hear from him. We've had a little bit of discussion amongst committee members, and I think it might also be a good idea to have the Governor of the Bank of Canada, Mark Carney, here. One option would be to split the time equally between those two for the meeting on Thursday, assuming they are both available.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

The proposal is to invite the parliamentary budget officer and the Governor of the Bank of Canada to the meeting on Thursday. I think that's a very reasonable motion.

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

As the chair, I will do so.

Mr. Wallace.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Mr. Chair, the amendment that was passed by the House of Commons indicated that the government needs to report back on a frequent basis starting at the end of March. I think that means that this committee needs to look at the actual budget bill--the implementation bill--if we're going to actually implement anything by that time.

My suggestion is that we start to see witnesses on the budget bill next week, and maybe we could start that on Tuesday. I'm open to any discussion on that.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Okay, thank you, Mr. Wallace.

Mr. McCallum.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

I certainly think that's a good idea. But since the budget is large, the next thing to ask is what witnesses and what themes?

Since my colleague put it on the table, I would suggest that two themes are important in terms of these quarterly reports--and important overall. One of these would be infrastructure and the degree to which money is going to get out the door, and the degree to which we can measure whether money is getting out the door on a regular basis. The second priority item I'd put on the table would be the changes that have been made in employment insurance and whether further changes might need to be made.

So I would propose two themes as early priorities: infrastructure and employment insurance. There could be a variety of witnesses on each.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Okay. So the recommendation is to begin discussions of the budget and an expected budget implementation bill next week, and Mr. McCallum is recommending infrastructure and employment insurance as the two initial themes.

I have Monsieur Laforest, and then Mr. Wallace.

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Wallace was saying earlier that he assumed the budget would pass this evening . We're in the process of setting an agenda based on that likelihood. Perhaps we should wait until it's a fait accompli. I'm also assuming that the budget will be approved.

You stated earlier that you were also awaiting recommendations or suggestions from committee members concerning the committee's possible agenda. There are a number of interesting possibilities, but I don't think we need to rush into anything. Let's meet with the parliamentary budget officer next Thursday, and with the Director of the Bank of Canada. However, next Tuesday, I think we should take a closer look at what we should put on our agenda for the coming weeks, before we immediately turn our attention to the budget. We need to wait and see if there are any other issues that might tie in with the budget.

I think we're moving a little too quickly. Let's set aside next Tuesday's meeting to consider the future business of the committee. Besides, according to our agenda, we weren't supposed to decide this today.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

That's correct. It's a recommendation, obviously. The committee can choose to decide that at a later date.

Mr. Wallace.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

I appreciate the input from my colleagues across the table. I don't disagree with the concepts of areas of study that the Liberal member has put forward, nor do I disagree with the Bloc presentation. But we don't know if the budget will pass tonight. If it doesn't pass tonight, Monsieur Laforest, I think we'll be knocking on doors next week, right?

In terms of a compromise, instead of putting it into the motion exactly what we're doing today, my suggestion is that we maybe add a half an hour to the meeting on Thursday and have an actual discussion of what the themes will be and what we're going to do with the budget timing.

My suggestion is that we either take a half an hour away from the speakers--which I don't want to do--or add a half an hour to this committee meeting to make that happen on Thursday.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

The proposal then is to add half an hour, from 11 to 11:30, on Thursday morning.

Mr. Mulcair.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

I tend to agree with Mr. Wallace. Earlier, we defended our institutions and I think the committee is making a fundamental error in assuming that it knows how the majority of parliamentarians are going to vote. One never knows. The Liberals might find the courage to propose some genuine amendments. They have the gall to claim that they are putting the government on probation, when in fact, all they have done is given it their seal of approval. The brave Liberals, who have ordered the government to produce four reports, may demand some changes to employment insurance. We'll have to wait and see, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you.

Mr. Pacetti, please.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

It's quite simple: if the budget is defeated, then we won't be here tomorrow. I think we've already wasted enough time. We came here to work. We can wait until Thursday to have a five to ten-minute discussion about next week's agenda. I think everyone knows that the budget is going to pass. If it doesn't, we won't be here tomorrow. If it does pass, then we should talk about when it goes before the House, that is when the bill is adopted. Perhaps we should start sooner rather than later, otherwise it will be hard getting witnesses next week. We could start with a simple discussion and submit names of witnesses we would like to hear from. That way, we'll be ready to finalize the list on Thursday. Otherwise, from a work standpoint, next week will be lost.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you, Mr. Pacetti.

Mr. Menzies.

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

I agree completely. We owe it to Canadians to get on with this. We have a deadline for reporting. It'll be rather embarrassing for all of us if we can't report back that something has actually happened.

To Mr. McCallum's comment, we need to make sure we hear from witnesses. I'd be interested in hearing Mr. McCallum's suggestions on who we should hear first. If this money isn't getting out the door, who's standing in the way of it? We need to get this started right away. We owe it to Canadians to get this moving. Whether the budget passes tonight or not is irrelevant. At this point let's plan on getting this done. So I encourage us to get an idea of who we want to hear and get moving.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you.

I think members of the committee agree on Mr. Wallace's suggestion that we add an extra half hour to Thursday's meeting. If members wish, they should send suggestions to me and the clerk. If not, bring them on Thursday morning but be prepared to discuss them. We will invite the Governor of the Bank of Canada and the parliamentary budgetary officer for Thursday morning.

I have nothing further, so unless any member wants to propose something, we'll see you Thursday morning.

Thank you. The meeting is adjourned.