The proposal, with respect to the Canada supplementary pension plan, has a long horizon. It's a vision. Once we press the start button, it will take many years for it to mature over time. So we need to distinguish between that proposal and where we are today. And where we are today is that many of these defined benefit plans, when you measure their assets and their liabilities, typically have 60¢ or 70¢ on the dollar on a fair-value basis.
The question is how that resolves itself over time, and ideally, how these DB plans move to something that's more sustainable.
For the good credits.... And remember, there's a public sector dimension to this and a private sector dimension. We can have an interesting discussion about all the public sector plans in terms of whether in fact those pensions are going to be paid. There's a very broad assumption that, yes, they are going to be paid, even though there might not be, on a fair-value basis, the exact amount of money required. It will be made up over time.
We're really talking about private sector DB plans. They range all the way from being very good credits, which means that even though the pension plan may have 60¢ on the dollar of liabilities, there will be a work-out. On the other hand, we have Nortel as a classic example. It's already in reorganization. The pensioners of Nortel are already standing in line with other creditors, saying, “Hello?” They will get their 60¢ on the dollar that's in the pension plan, but they're trying to see what else they may be able to pick up out of the reorganization. I don't know how that will play out. That's the distinction.