Finance Committee on May 5th, 2009

[William Baker]

It is difficult because of what families do and the information they provide us. We're always trying to catch up with what the reality is to ensure we're making the correct decisions. We certainly have beefed up our information products around the child tax benefit so people understand the rules with respect to split families and so on and how that is administered. But in terms of any changes, again, I can't speak of any specific changes to the overall determination criteria for the benefit.

One of the things we're doing related to that, which we started in the last year, is building direct links with the provincial birth registries. We've started that in a number of provinces to help us get real-time information so we can activate the child tax benefit as soon as possible. That should help.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you.

We'll go to Mr. Pacetti, please.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you to the witnesses. It's always fun to have department officials here.

I have two quick questions, Mr. Baker. One is mainly from an administrative point of view. You just said your ultimate goal is to provide the best service you can to taxpayers. My understanding is that in Montreal, if you present yourself to CRA downtown and you want to pull your file or ask a question, they refer you to the phone and then you get an operator somewhere else other than a live person. Is that correct? Is that the gist of the--

[William Baker]

What you would be referring to is if someone walks into any tax services office--

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

I'm talking about the one in Montreal, and I haven't verified it, so I'm asking you first.

[William Baker]

It could be in Montreal. You walk into a Montreal tax services office and you want information. First, that information may not be in that tax office. For instance, the tax file is probably at the Shawinigan tax centre or somewhere like that. If we don't have the information, the counter staff there will try to help them, of course. But if it's not there, we try to teach people how to access it through the computer or through the 1-800 number and we make that available.

The number of people walking into our offices in the last number of years is down considerably because more people are taking advantage of the website. And second, this year we've significantly increased our capacity to deal with telephone calls. We've made about a $30 million investment, so people are getting service that way.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

I understand that. We have the same problem with our constituents. I'd prefer my constituents call and make an appointment so we can address their problems, but the constituents who come to our office aren't turned away. We give them service. I'm just asking you if that is not the rationale at CRA? My understanding is that you don't have an agent who will sit down with them and take them through the process. My understanding is that's what happens with Revenu Québec, but that's not what happens with CRA.

[William Baker]

No, that's not completely correct. If we don't have anybody who has the information to serve the person, first we'll see if there's an alternative channel to serve them, as I identified. If not, we'll make an appointment with that individual and make sure we've got the information and the right agent in place to answer their queries.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

But nobody will sit down with them and perhaps even help them to make the phone call, or perhaps look at the screen with them.

[William Baker]

We do that all the time.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

That will happen?

[William Baker]

That will happen.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Okay.

[William Baker]

Now, it's a very small percentage of our taxpayers who actually come into our offices these days

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

No, no, I understand that, but I'm just wondering if the small percentage of people who do present themselves will be helped by an agent, even if they have to wait.

[William Baker]

What we are organized to do, whenever possible, is try to take care of that taxpayer. Now, of course, depending on the time of year, there could be a wait associated with that, but we try to help them one way or another. If all else fails, we'll set up an appointment and make sure that—

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

I'm going to go down to that Montreal office, and if that doesn't happen, I'll be back and ask you the same questions. You know that.

[William Baker]

Do that, and tell me when you're going to be there, and I'll make sure that....

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

I have a quick question on the estimates. I think you mentioned the contributions in support of charities' regulatory reform in your opening remarks. No, actually, it's not the same thing.

To expand your capacity to combat terrorist financing through charities, you have $4.7 million. How do we know that you're getting your money's worth? What are the conditions imposed on that amount of money? What is the ultimate goal—to catch how many terrorists? Or how do we know the money's being utilized?

[William Baker]

Mr. Chair, I'll give you a general response, and I believe Jim Ralston can add some specifics.

What this is designed to do, of course, is to be able to conduct the right analysis of the money flowing through charities, to look at the connections between charities in order to ascertain at the end of the day whether the money being collected through the charitable tax regime is ultimately being used to finance terrorist organizations. It's a heavy analytical investment, as you can imagine, because it's not as simple as one charity being involved; it usually involves many, many charities and the flow of funds between them. We try to track that. At the end of the day, we want to be able to provide some assurance—

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

So you have a specific department for that?

[William Baker]

Yes, we have a dedicated unit in the charities directorate that holds—

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

And is that funded separately from the rest of the CRA?

[William Baker]

No, the $4.7 million I referred to earlier was an increase in the funding to improve our capacity to do that.