Our position is not to claim that pensions, on the whole, should not be improved. We are aware that retirees are fragile and vulnerable. You have to consider the best way to do it. There will necessarily be costs associated with that, and I'm of the view that those costs must be considered as payroll costs.
I liked your question that led us to say that this was a tax. In our minds, these are clearly wage costs. I think improvements at the margin can definitely be made to the public plans. I don't question that at all, but I think this is the time of much deeper changes. We have to work to consolidate this pillar of registered pension plans, which have aged somewhat and are declining. That's the meaning of the appeal we are making this morning.