Visa and MasterCard do not make money from interchange. Their revenue model is driven off assessment fees that are charged to merchant processors like us as well as assessment fees that are charged to the issuers. So it's in their best interests to try to maximize the flow-through of volume in the system. The more charge volume that goes through the system, the more we end up paying in assessment fees, the more the issuers end up paying in assessment fees, and that's in their best interest. So what they have to do is try to balance the interchange rate and set the interchange rate in a way that maximizes participation in the system. In that respect, they'll be able to get as much volume as possible.
So things like the contactless debit, for example, as Jeff pointed out, would be innovations that would bring more volume into the system, presumably generate more assessment fees, and make their shareholders happy.