Finance Committee on Sept. 28th, 2009

Evidence of meeting #43 for Finance in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was federal.

On the agenda

Pre-budget Consultations 2009

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Lois E. Jackson Mayor, Corporation of Delta

John Roscoe Chairperson, Ladner Sediment Group

Chris Scurr Spokesperson, Ladner Sediment Group

Al Kemp Chief Executive Officer, Rental Owners and Managers Society of British Columbia

Kay Sinclair Regional Executive Vice-President, British Columbia, Public Service Alliance of Canada

Corrine Dahling Mayor, Village of Tahsis

Ian Bird Senior Leader, Sport Matters Group

Adrienne Montani Provincial Co-ordinator, First Call: B.C. Child and Youth Advocacy Coalition

Julie Norton Provincial Chair, First Call: B.C. Child and Youth Advocacy Coalition

Don Krusel President and Chief Executive Officer, Prince Rupert Port Authority

Nigel Lockyer Director, TRIUMF

Robin Silvester President and Chief Executive Officer, Port Metro Vancouver

William Otway As an Individual

Eric Wilson Chair, Taxation and Finance Team, Surrey Board of Trade

Farah Mohamed President, External, Non-Profit, Belinda Stronach Foundation

Ralph Nilson President and Vice-Chancellor, Vancouver Island University

Shamus Reid Chairperson, Canadian Federation of Students (British Columbia)

Gavin Dirom President and Chief Executive Officer, Association for Mineral Exploration British Columbia

Byng Giraud Senior Director, Policy and Communications, Association for Mineral Exploration British Columbia

Graham Mowatt As an Individual

Elizabeth Model Executive Director, Downtown Surrey Business Improvement Association

Susan Harney Representative, Child Care Advocacy Association of Canada

Susan Khazaie Director, Federation of Community Action Programs for Children of British Columbia Association

Colin Ewart Director, Government Leaders, Rick Hansen Foundation

Paul Kershaw Human Early Learning Partnership, University of British Columbia

Ian Boyko Research and Communications Officer, Canadian Federation of Students (British Columbia)

Sharon Gregson Spokesperson, Coalition of Child Care Advocates of British Columbia

Crystal Janes Representative, Coalition of Child Care Advocates of British Columbia

Ian Mass Executive Director, Pacific Community Resources Society

John Coward Manager, Employment Programs, Pacific Community Resources Society

Bob Harvey Chair, Tax and Fiscal Advisory Group, Certified General Accountants Association of Canada

Shane Devenish Representative, Recreation Vehicle Dealers Association of Canada

Nicholas Humphreys Representative, Union of Environment Workers

Guy Nelson Co-Chair, Industry, Coalition for Canadian Astronomy

Janet Leduc Executive Director, Heritage Vancouver Society

Rodger Touchie President, Association of Canadian Publishers

Paul Hickson Co-Chair, Canadian Astronomical Society, Coalition for Canadian Astronomy

3 p.m.

Bloc

Jean-Yves Laforest Bloc Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC

I must point out that we are in a dispute with the government. It has not yet compensated the Quebec government, which was the first to harmonize its sales tax, in the 1990s.

Thank you, Mr. Harvey.

My next question is for Mr. Humphreys, from the Union of Environment Workers.

You raised, what I consider, some fundamental issues. You talked about the Fraser River and said that, based on the estimates, you were expecting approximately 10 million salmon to return to the river this year to spawn, but you recorded only 1 million. That is terrible. I think there is a direct link with the health of the environment. That is a very clear sign of major environmental degradation, not only for salmon, but also for humans.

This morning, Mr. Otway gave a presentation. I am not sure if you know him. He wants the federal government to invest $200 million, while you asked for $100 million, so half the money. Are there differences between your request and Mr. Otway's in terms of restoring salmon habitat?

3 p.m.

Representative, Union of Environment Workers

Nicholas Humphreys

I don't know the individual you're talking about, but the $100 million we're talking about is to find out where we're at. It's probably not even enough to restore the habitat we have lost. That's going to be partly a provincial responsibility because of the forestry practices that have gone on. I was talking about finding out the stock assessments for salmon. A lot of that has to be done in the ocean, and that's very expensive science, very expensive research. It has to be done on every river and every bit of salmon habitat in B.C. So it's a huge project. I'm estimating it to be $100 million. I don't have the DFO budget in front of me, but I have made some estimations and have talked to others. That's what I think we need.

At the moment only $13 million a year goes into habitat in B.C. That's through Environment Canada and DFO.

3:05 p.m.

Bloc

Jean-Yves Laforest Bloc Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC

Mr. Humphreys, this morning, Mr. Otway, whom you do not know, made a presentation. He told us that salmon sport fishing yielded greater economic returns than commercial fishing, and the difference was significantly higher, even in terms of jobs.

We can assume that commercial fish catches are much larger but that they have a negative impact on the number of salmon. Have measures been considered to reduce, perhaps temporarily, the number of commercially fished salmon?

3:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

You have time for just a brief response, Mr. Humphreys.

3:05 p.m.

Representative, Union of Environment Workers

Nicholas Humphreys

I think sport fishing has probably double the economic value of commercial fishing. I don't think that even takes in the tourism part of it. The government should buy back commercial salmon licences from the commercial fishermen and reduce that level of fishing. In fact, they'll probably have to reduce sport and commercial fishing in the near term to bring the stocks back to a level that is sustainable.

I think every landed salmon from a commercial boat is worth something like $5 a pound. Every salmon that is landed in a sport fishing environment is worth closer to $100 a pound, so sport fishing has a huge potential for British Columbia. But I don't think it's fair to punish commercial fishermen for the decreased stock of salmon.

3:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Thank you.

I see Mr. Laforest, but I'm going to take the next spot here as the chair.

I want to follow up with the Recreation Vehicle Dealers Association. As Mr. McCallum said, we heard in Ottawa that the Canadian Secured Credit Facility was working well for certain parts of the sector, but not for the smaller dealers and your sector. I'd like you to finish your comments. You said the federal government now through EDC would give a guarantee of $100 million. Are you saying that would deal with your floor-plan financing?

3:05 p.m.

Representative, Recreation Vehicle Dealers Association of Canada

Shane Devenish

It is a solution. The CSCF hasn't worked for the floor-plan industry at all. I don't think it was ever included, and that's why it hasn't worked.

We've been talking with various lenders, such as asset-based lenders, banks, and what have you, about what it would take for them to get into our market. This is a possible solution to entice them now, when they see the risk as being higher than when they might normally come in down the road when they don't see the risk. They could possibly come in with some sort of government guarantee.

One prospective lender suggested a 10% guarantee for a portfolio of $200 million, so that would be a maximum guarantee of $20 million to get into this now, knowing that the loss ratio over the last 20 years has never reached or exceeded 80 basis points of an ANR.

3:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

But this is a lender other than GE?

3:05 p.m.

Representative, Recreation Vehicle Dealers Association of Canada

Shane Devenish

Yes, it is.

3:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

And they're willing to enter the market as a new lender in this area?

3:05 p.m.

Representative, Recreation Vehicle Dealers Association of Canada

Shane Devenish

Yes, they are.

3:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

So for one dealership, you're saying that for a $200 million portfolio, if the government were in with a $20 million guarantee, this lender would be in?

3:05 p.m.

Representative, Recreation Vehicle Dealers Association of Canada

Shane Devenish

Yes. It's a lender the industry has designated as one that would be a very capable and committed lender to the industry.

3:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Okay, and have you presented that to the finance department and minister in the latest round?

3:10 p.m.

Representative, Recreation Vehicle Dealers Association of Canada

Shane Devenish

As I mentioned in my remarks, we presented that option to Jeremy Rudin's group in the department. We last me with them in the first week in August, and they are now considering it.

3:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

But your timeline is obviously prior to the next budget, right?

3:10 p.m.

Representative, Recreation Vehicle Dealers Association of Canada

Shane Devenish

Absolutely. We're at a point now where dealers are going to have to restock their inventory. They're starting to do that now, and you have 20% or 25% of the dealers right now who are unable to restock. And that's the critical point: they're just going to go out of business in a worst-case scenario.

3:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

So the product they have now they can sell, but any future product they cannot bring in?

3:10 p.m.

Representative, Recreation Vehicle Dealers Association of Canada

Shane Devenish

Right.

So we've had a situation this year where inventory levels have gone down because shipments are down 50%—and Gord can attest to this—where you have retail activity down 15% to 25%. So their inventory levels are at the lowest point in perhaps—

3:10 p.m.

A voice

A lot of years.

3:10 p.m.

Representative, Recreation Vehicle Dealers Association of Canada

Shane Devenish

It's for a number of reasons, including the lack of ability to floor plan their inventory.

3:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Okay, I appreciate that. If you have any further clarification, feel free to forward it.

I did want to follow up with respect to the discussion on a tax credit for historic places. It's something I've been interested in for some time. Actually the Federal Building in Edmonton will now be renovated. It's done in the old twenties style out of New York, but it's been sitting empty for the last 20 or 30 years. The city is finally doing something about it.

So I just want you to explain this some more. You have the Canadian Register of Historic Places, and this would be on the list. Then if you're on the list, you would be eligible in some way for a tax credit. But I'm wondering if you could use any building as an example for me and describe how this would actually work in a practical way.

3:10 p.m.

Executive Director, Heritage Vancouver Society

Janet Leduc

Well, as you say, it would have to be on the historic places register, because otherwise people would be just coming forward with some old building and wanting to get money for it.

Once you are on that register—and of course you can apply to be on that list if you aren't on it—I think you'd probably have to get three estimates of what it is going to cost to restore your building. Then there would be a certain percentage of that, but not the whole amount, that you could reclaim back. But that would only be after the building had been restored, and done so effectively, so that it wasn't butchered in the process, if you will.

3:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

And the key would be preserving the outside structure and the appearance, but are there restrictions on what you can do inside the building?

3:10 p.m.

Executive Director, Heritage Vancouver Society

Janet Leduc

Well, I think the outside would obviously be the key. In terms of the inside, you'd want to keep the basic structure of the wood frame and windows, and so on. But we've seen some excellent examples of buildings that have been used for something other than their original purpose, and we would certainly support that.