Why do I think?
Evidence of meeting #43 for Finance in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was federal.
Evidence of meeting #43 for Finance in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was federal.
1:40 p.m.
Conservative
Bob Dechert Conservative Mississauga—Erindale, ON
Yes, why do you think they weren't able to deliver?
1:40 p.m.
Representative, Child Care Advocacy Association of Canada
It's beyond me to get into the heads of politicians. I'm not quite sure.
1:40 p.m.
Conservative
Bob Dechert Conservative Mississauga—Erindale, ON
They've been advocating this for a very long time; they had majority governments, successive majority governments, and yet were unable to deliver. Why do you think that was?
1:40 p.m.
Representative, Child Care Advocacy Association of Canada
I think there is some ideology over the years that has gotten in the way. I think that women working in the workforce haven't been taken seriously throughout the years. I think we pay lip service to our children in Canada and say they're our most important resource, but I don't think we always step up to the plate and do the right thing by them. So I think there are a number of factors.
There was the provincial-territorial and federal agreements that the previous Liberal government had moved forward with, and we were in a position to start transfer payments with some conditions—as weak as they may have been, there were some conditions. Why the Conservative Party chose to come in and rip up those agreements, I think you'd have to ask Mr. Harper.
1:40 p.m.
Conservative
Bob Dechert Conservative Mississauga—Erindale, ON
I guess we can wonder if that promise would have been followed through on as well, but I have a question for Ms. Khazaie.
1:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
I'm sorry, we're out of time, Mr. Dechert, but there will be time for a second round.
Okay, let's try to keep our questions to the witnesses here.
We'll go to Mr. Julian, please.
1:40 p.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thanks to all the witnesses.
This is very important. Ottawa is a bubble, I can tell you, being a British Columbian. You go there and there are lobbyists and very little discussion of what's happening in the daily lives of Canadians. So the fact that you're here today helps break that bubble and provide a healthy dose of realism that we need to take into consideration.
I'd like to start with Ms. Harney. The fact that you've come here 25 consecutive times and we still don't have a child care program and international standards in place is at the same time a little depressing, but it also shows to what degree activists like yourself are determined to keep pushing until Canada joins the modern age and actually puts in place a national child care program.
1:40 p.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
I appreciate your dedication to that.
I'd like to ask you and Ms. Khazaie and Mr. Kershaw to put it in simpler terms. If we make these investments in early childhood and learning—the NDP has brought forward a bill on that subject, and as you know, Jack Layton certainly feels very strongly about it as well—for every dollar we put into this, how much do we save later on, and what is the price of not acting, as standards and the quality of life for our children continue to deteriorate?
September 28th, 2009 / 1:40 p.m.
Human Early Learning Partnership, University of British Columbia
On the brief that we submitted, we show that the cost of accepting biologically unnecessary vulnerability for kids, so accepting 30% of kids coming into school not ready to learn, equals in one province alone about $400 billion over about 60 years. Across the country that's a cost of $3 trillion. That's fine for me as an economic growth strategy, where you can actually grab $3 trillion in growth. It's in the minds and bodies of the kids that are in kindergarten today. We can decide not to invest in it, but that's what we're forgoing.
1:40 p.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
No, I want you to put it another way. You're saying there's—
1:40 p.m.
Human Early Learning Partnership, University of British Columbia
Okay. Over that number of years, the ratio of return is 6:1, but you have to be patient. Mr. McCallum is right: you're not going to get $6 for every $1 you invest tomorrow or even in the first three electoral cycles. Why? Because the kids need to grow up and get into the labour market. Once they're there, the returns start coming much more quickly. If we can be patient, it's an enormously valuable investment, but it means we have to rethink economic growth.
1:40 p.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
What that means, though, is that for every dollar the federal government chooses to invest, we're looking over time at $6 in benefit going back to communities. So that is a very smart economic strategy.
1:40 p.m.
Human Early Learning Partnership, University of British Columbia
Yes, 2:1 is a smart economic strategy, and 6:1 is brilliant, but you need to be patient.
1:40 p.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
Unfortunately, Ottawa is not often patient. It's the one-offs and corporate tax cuts, rather than the long-term investment.
What is the cost of not acting?
1:40 p.m.
Director, Federation of Community Action Programs for Children of British Columbia Association
I would say the cost of not acting is the 40,000 children in British Columbia today who are living with situations of risk, whose development is compromised because we have decided not to invest in their future. There are 40,000 children whose dear little eyes we ought to be looking at and saying, “We've decided your future isn't important and worth investing in,” and that breaks my heart.
1:45 p.m.
Representative, Child Care Advocacy Association of Canada
The new workforce study out by the Child Care Human Resources Sector Council, just released on Friday, does have some very short-term benefits where we don't have to wait 6 or 12 years. With some of those that I was talking about, every $1 million that goes into the sector creates more jobs than investing that $1 million anywhere else--more than in construction, more than in manufacturing.
Peter, it's that kind of new way of thinking that this government has to get its head around, because it isn't about going back to the old manufacturing that we know as the breadwinner of 20 years ago. This is a new way of investing. There are actually some very short-term, “right away, tomorrow” benefits for the dollars that are put in, and that study articulates them really well.
1:45 p.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
Thank you very much.
I'd like to go over to our colleagues in the CFS now.
Many people say that the price of the massive corporate tax cuts we've seen over the last few years, a choice that both Liberal and Conservative governments have made, has come on the backs of students. What is your sense of the price that students have paid for the lack of support of the educational sector, and do you think it's true in any way that students are paying the price for this right-wing agenda we've seen over the last 20 years?
1:45 p.m.
Chairperson, Canadian Federation of Students (British Columbia)
Speaking for students in British Columbia, I think it's certainly true. I'm glad for the opportunity to answer this question, because what we've actually seen in B.C. lately with recently announced provincial budget updates is that by 2011, revenue from corporate income taxes will actually be outpaced by revenue from tuition fees in provincial coffers.
1:45 p.m.
Chairperson, Canadian Federation of Students (British Columbia)
Essentially, corporate income tax cuts are being subsidized by tuition fees and user fees for education. In fact, in B.C., corporate income tax revenue is going to be outpaced by tuition fee revenue.
1:45 p.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
So students will be paying more into provincial coffers than the entire corporate sector.
1:45 p.m.
Chairperson, Canadian Federation of Students (British Columbia)
Yes. I think that puts it very succinctly, and to see this exacerbated by similar federal policies is not necessarily the best public policy. In fact, investments in education, like investments in early childhood education, investments in post-secondary education, have a significant return on investment. Particularly if we're investing in creating access to post-secondary education and ensuring that low- and middle-income families are able to send their children to school, we see a much more diversified economy and we see a much more, frankly, equal society in Canada, where everybody has the opportunity to contribute to their full ability in Canada's economy.
We certainly think tax cuts should not be subsidized by user fees for these essential public services.