Finance Committee on Feb. 12th, 2009

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I can be very clear that we're not coming forward with any legislative changes to the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

That's not the question, and you know it.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Let the minister answer.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

We're going to work under existing authorities. Under the Navigable Waters Protection Act, which is a transport piece of legislation, we have identified that this is a major problem. I don't believe for a moment that Premier Charest, that Premier McGuinty, that Premier Doer, that Premier Campbell--

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

I know a little bit more about Premier Charest than you do and about what he really thinks about the environment, Mr. Baird. I know a lot more about that than you do.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Mr. Mulcair, let's let Minister Baird finish his answer.

Order, order.

Go ahead, Minister Baird.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I've always respected areas of provincial jurisdiction. I do not intend to wage a battle with the Premier of Quebec.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

You were the one who quoted him.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I do not intend to wage such a battle. I have a lot of respect for the Premier of Quebec.

I simply want to point out that I do not doubt that Gary Doer, Gordon Campbell, Dalton McGuinty and Jean Charest are ready to support this measure, considering all of the work they have done for the environment. This is necessary.

Mr. Kennedy has already raised the types of problems that arise when working in this area. The real reason is that there is not enough infrastructure being built in Canada. If you want to change that, there are measures.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

I know that the minister is capable of eating up time, but I would still like to get in a word as an elected official. He is the one who sits in cabinet.

You're playing a very dangerous game, sir. You are trying to convince people that because there are laws to protect the environment, the government needs to repeal some protective measures. We are debating this against the backdrop of a global economic crisis. We are already handing down to future generations a very heavy economic debt. Let's not exasperate the problems by handing them an environmental deficit that can never be rectified.

I was involved in making regulations pertaining to the overpass over Rivière des Prairies where there was a lake sturgeon pool. The negotiations fell under a public-private partnership with the Government of Quebec. The federal and provincial governments acted collaboratively. My federal counterpart, Minister Anderson and myself worked together to standardize the assessment process.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Please ask your question.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

There was never any problem.

Would the minister stop saying that the economic problems we are experiencing give him a free pass to wreck the environment! This is scandalous.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Okay.

Mr. Baird, just a brief response, if you can.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I think your comments are somewhat alarmist and over the top. I don't believe Gary Doer would support anything of the kind.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Okay, thank you.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Mr. Chairman, on a point of order, I was just going to mention to Mr. Mulcair that he has a lot of misinformation, and it just so happens he's sitting next to a member, Mr. Carrier, who actually sat and heard all the evidence on the navigable waters and actually supported that report. So if he wanted to ask me some questions, he has the opportunity.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Mr. Jean, I'm sorry, that's not a point of order.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

I'm just trying to be helpful.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Okay, we're all trying to be helpful this morning.

Mr. Kramp, you have seven minutes.

[Daryl Kramp, Conservative, Prince Edward—Hastings, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Welcome, Minister Baird. And as always, I look forward to your direct and forthright comments. I know that like most regions across this country, my riding of Prince Edward--Hastings certainly is eager to be a willing partner in infrastructure improvements. We look forward to participating in this form of stimulus, which obviously will provide a long-lasting benefit for all Canadians.

That having been said, I think we all recognize that the time limits and the various levels of cooperation are absolutely critical. So as such, there's been a lot of talk about the need for all the levels of government to work together. What I would like to know from you is this. What is your department, on behalf of our government, doing to encourage and to facilitate these various levels of cooperation? Likewise, what is it doing to ensure that all the provinces and all the municipalities receive their share of this funding as quickly as possible?

So there are two questions: the level of cooperation and the speed of the funding.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

One of the things we did before making any decisions is go out and we listen. I was impressed that on the Navigable Waters Protection Act, the Conservative Party, the Liberal Party, the Bloc Québécois, and the NDP did a lot of work on this--the transport committee--and responded unanimously. These changes were all looked at over a year ago, long before the current economic crisis that we now face. So we're coming forward with legislative changes and we're coming forward with regulatory enhancements that again build on what we heard from Liberal governments, from Conservative governments, from Progressive Conservative governments, from NDP governments across the country.

My premier, Dalton McGuinty, said that the discussions on infrastructure were perhaps the most positive, both in the November and January meetings, that he's seen in the first ministers conference. So we've developed an unprecedented consensus for action. I think that's important. We're looking at a variety of areas as well within my own department. With the web of rules that it has built up--and I don't point fingers at any political party--with scandal after scandal after scandal, where people with good intentions came forward and established more red tape, we're doing everything we can to streamline that.

We've also asked the provinces and municipalities to do their part as well, and they're all agreed. I was pleased with that.

I think, though, one of the things that are important is that it requires leadership at the top and a cooperative spirit. I think when I talk to folks in my constituency of Ottawa West--Nepean, what they want to see in this challenging time in the Ontario economy is their federal government and their provincial government working cooperatively together to put aside politics. I think the current relationship, for example, in your province and mine with the provincial government is probably at a high-water mark. Gone are the cheap shots on both sides; gone are the political manoeuvring . There's a real commitment to work together. That leadership comes from the top. It's coming from Premier McGuinty, it's coming from Prime Minister Harper, and we're committed to do that.

One of the areas that I think can delay projects is just political agreement, and we've been working hard, directly. I jumped into this. I met all my provincial counterparts, all the premiers directly on this issue. We've done a lot of work and we're committed to continue that spirit of cooperation. Without that, nothing can work. No matter how many regulatory changes we make, no matter how much money we throw in the system, it's been particularly constructive with Ontario. This is a sea change on both of our parts, and I think that's positive.

[Daryl Kramp, Conservative, Prince Edward—Hastings, ON]

Obviously like many of my colleagues in the House here, I served for a number of years municipally, and as such, in most cases in a much less partisan environment than what we have here. But obviously we well recognize that many, many municipalities really can't afford to go it alone on most major infrastructure projects. They just don't have that capacity. So the need to partner is there.

As far as delivering benefits, though, to these municipalities is concerned, because many of them can really never expect to see the kinds of results and needs without some effective leverage of other organizations.... Could you potentially elaborate on the benefits of this unprecedented investment in this infrastructure particularly to a lot of these municipalities that simply can't go it alone?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I hope there will be many benefits environmentally. I worked quite hard with one of our members of Parliament on a project in Merrickville, where the waste water treatment plant is about to collapse, with the potential of sending raw sewage down the Rideau, which is now a UNESCO world heritage site. If we can come out of these economically challenging times and can put people to work to provide a stimulus to the economy--which will go far beyond those people who work in construction or in providing materials--it will provide big benefits throughout the economy, and if they have an environmental infrastructure investment that can last a hundred years, I think that'll be very good.

One of the things I talked about with the Saskatchewan government and one of the members of Parliament there is mining. If we can make investments in transportation and roads or rail that will facilitate economic growth well into the future, that will be positive. If we can make investments in public transit, as we've committed to do in Toronto--the ground will be broken quickly--and in Vancouver and elsewhere, we'll have quality of life, less congestion, and less air pollution, which I think will be a benefit.

Everyone has their top priority as to what they'd like to see. Obviously I'm Minister of Transport, so I want to see transport infrastructure. In Prescott, they want improvements to their port. In Belledune, New Brunswick, they want improvements to their port. I'm facing a significant amount of lobbying from various ports

in the province of Quebec, in areas such as Sept-Îles, in Quebec city and in Montreal. This is a matter that falls under federal jurisdiction. The investment process was intended for areas of federal jurisdiction, such as airports as well.

But as a former environment minister, obviously clean water is something I think is important. Public transit is important. So too is basic infrastructure for roads, for water treatment, for sewer upgrades, which are important.

[Daryl Kramp, Conservative, Prince Edward—Hastings, ON]

Thank you, Minister Baird.

Do I have a couple of minutes?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

A couple of minutes? No, you don't; you have five seconds. Time marches on, Mr. Kramp.

We have our five-minute rounds. Ms. Hall Findlay, please, to start.