Finance Committee on Oct. 21st, 2009

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

My next question is for both for the Registered Nurses' Association and for the VON. I want to thank you both for the services that your members provide. My mother received services from the VON that were very helpful, and I appreciate that. I know that millions of Canadians receive those same services.

Why aren't more students choosing to train as nurses? What can we do to encourage them? Secondly, what more can we do to help nurses who were trained abroad to have their qualifications and work experience recognized?

A few years ago, I was hospitalized with pneumonia. The nurse from the Philippines knew more than the doctor who was assigned to me. I was suspected of having tuberculosis. She told me that she came from the Philippines, where she had dealt with people with tuberculosis for 25 years, and that she knew I didn't have it. But the doctors had that on my chart.

I would like to hear your views.

[Doris Grinspun]

First, let me make a correction. There are actually more people who want to come into nursing than we can admit to the schools.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

So we need more openings.

[Doris Grinspun]

This problem results from infrastructure issues, the need to fast-track faculty, the need to support clinical placements, etc. We are asking for the full support we need to increase nursing education as well as support for infrastructure and clinical placements. We're asking for $135 million to support nursing education and $250 million to support 10,000 additional full-time RN positions. This is not a lot, really. Doctors got way more.

The difficulty is to get the support we need to produce these people. They're ready to come. Schools simply cannot accept the many who are waiting. That's a good thing, because in the U.S. that's not the situation. So that's a good thing for Canada.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

You don't need to encourage people; you simply have to make it easy for them to get--

[Doris Grinspun]

And then if we produce them, while we still should keep our borders open to those who individually choose to make this country their home--and you have two good examples with strong accents who have done so--we do oppose very strongly the active recruitment by either governments or employers going abroad and taking their nurses, or doctors for that matter.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Why is that?

[Doris Grinspun]

You gave the example of the Philippines. In the last few years, numerous hospitals have closed in Manila because they don't have enough nurses, even though they're known to produce nurses--

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

But those people voluntarily want to come.

[Doris Grinspun]

--and because it has been transformed into a business proposition--

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

I am sorry to cut you off, but may I ask you a question? When people get here who voluntarily choose to come here--

[Doris Grinspun]

That's absolutely--

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

--what do we need to do to make it easier for them to qualify to be nurses here?

[Doris Grinspun]

Reading programs, so they're not treated as second-class citizens. And they have entry, like people with disabilities, to full-time employment, to all the positions so there are no structural barriers to become, for example, administrators, deans. How many deans, both in nursing and otherwise, how many CEOs in hospitals do you know who don't look like most of us around this table, meaning white women or men? We do have many structural barriers in this country for people from diverse communities.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Ms. Shamian wants to make a quick comment.

[Dr. Judith Shamian]

My only comment would be that actually all of the governments, provincial and federal, have invested in internationally educated nurses and doctors over the last few years, and I think we need to evaluate how successful we are so we can do more of it in a more effective way. Some of it is working well, some is working less. It's been on the radar screen of many of the countries, and I support Doris' comment that we need to be careful. Voluntary is one thing. I am an immigrant to this country. You're an immigrant to this country.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

No, I wasn't suggesting we actively recruit. I'm only saying, once they're here, how do we help them to qualify?

[Doris Grinspun]

We're on the same page. We have good examples. The CARE program is a good example for people who are already here.That's a good example, and we need to do more of that. We also need to do reading programs.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you very much.

We go to Mr. Pacetti, please.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you to the witnesses for appearing. It's a difficult task for us to put questions to all the groups, so I thank you for coming.

I have one quick question to the Canadian Paraplegic Association. The program you talk about, the residential rehabilitation assistance program, is that the one that was delivered through the social assistance--

[Bruce Drewett]

Yes, I believe that's true.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

It had a limited amount of money, and most of it went to just one riding, is that correct? That's the one that went to Flaherty's riding.

[Bruce Drewett]

I can't answer that in terms of where the money was funnelled.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Not to be partisan, but because there was a very limited amount of money, there was only one area, in my understanding, that--

[Bruce Drewett]

That might be correct, but I can't say specifically.