Finance Committee on Nov. 3rd, 2009

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you.

Merci, Monsieur Mulcair.

We'll go to Mr. Pacetti for a brief question.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

I'm almost tempted to ask the same question, but I don't know if I want to give up my whole five minutes to hear the same regurgitation.

Let me ask a separate question. Was there a written reply to Mr. Flaherty's letter?

[Ian Dale]

Yes, there was. It was sent to Mr. Flaherty and the other provincial finance ministers to whom we're accountable. We'd be happy to share that letter with the committee.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

That might be a start.

Mr. Rowe, I have a quick question. We don't have a written copy of your speech, but I think you said you'd like the government communication—or the legislation—to make the home renovation a little clearer. I'm not sure what you referred to. Can you make your comments a bit clearer?

[Michael Rowe]

On the fact that it ends at the end of January, some consumers are probably confused over whether they have to have it all installed by then, if it requires a contractor, or whether they can just have it purchased and then it can be installed later. That would probably be the most significant.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

We had the bureaucrats here, and their point was that as long as it was paid for, it was fine. But you have situations, for example, with bigger contractors installing windows. You may order the windows, but not necessarily have them installed. What do you do in that case? As somebody who would have given the contract, I don't necessarily go to the shop factory and see if the windows were actually built. So how do we do that?

One of the recommendations was to have the invoice separated to show that the building portion but not the installation portion was completed by January 31. I'm not sure if that's logistically possible. I'm not sure in your case how that could be done.

[Michael Rowe]

I know we can split up the product versus the labour, but I don't know if all retailers can. So it's not a matter of —

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

In your case you could?

[Michael Rowe]

Sure, we can separate the product from the labour itself. You can get all the product and have it in your house even before January 31. If you want to do it yourself, you can, but if you want to have it installed, you can have that done later.

It's just about the clarity around that. There's some confusion among Canadians.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

I feel the same way. I know what will happen is that CRA will always lean towards themselves and not necessarily towards the constituent or the taxpayer.

In your case, people will actually order materials ahead of time and then you'll deliver after a couple of weeks. Is that what happens in your industry?

[Michael Rowe]

There's a variety of options. They may order and take them from the store that day, take them home. They may want them shipped to their house in three days, two weeks, or three weeks. They may have them installed, depending—

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Can you help us by making sure your clients are also aware that by January 31 the items should be paid for?

[Michael Rowe]

Yes, that's what we're doing.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

I have a quick question, Mr. Georgetti, in terms of this home renovation and your membership. From what I'm seeing with my constituents, they're using the home renovation tax credit, but it's in small bits because people are not working and they don't have money. They're doing it to fill their spare time. I'm not sure if it's something you're seeing as beneficial to your membership. It's just a comment. I'm not sure how you view it.

[Ken Georgetti]

I think anything that helps to stimulate the economy.... And there's no doubt anecdotally that a lot of people are accessing it and conducting home renovations. I'm sure the program is an incentive. We've encouraged and endorsed it as a good incentive to help offset the job losses that are occurring in manufacturing.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Dale and Mr. Butler, on a different note, we don't get to see the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board in front of the committee too often. In terms of return, how is it going up to now? What's your year-end?

[Ian Dale]

Our year-end is March 31.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

On the final number that came in for last year, was your rate of return minus 14%?

[Ian Dale]

In calendar 2008, it was minus 14%. For the year ending March 31—therefore three months later—it was just over minus 18%. In the three months since that time—

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Go back and give me the last three months and afterwards. Could you give me the date please?

[Ian Dale]

The three months that ended in June, after our year-end, the—

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Would that be the April-to-June quarter?

[Ian Dale]

Yes, in April to June the fund increased by $11 billion, most of which was investment income, and it's up significantly since then to the end of September.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

In two quarters you would get it up significantly. What would that be in terms of percentage, more or less?

[Ian Dale]

The fund was up 11% in the first quarter and it's gone up significantly since then. Those results will come out in about two weeks.