Finance Committee on Dec. 8th, 2009

Evidence of meeting #70 for Finance in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was hst.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Bill C-62, An Act to amend the Excise Tax Act

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Angus Toulouse Ontario Regional Chief, Assembly of First Nations

Chief Randy Phillips Grand Chief, Oneida Nation, Association of Iroquois and Allied Indians

Keith Matthew Chief, Simpcw First Nation

Shirley-Ann George Senior Vice-President, Policy, Canadian Chamber of Commerce

Jean-Michel Laurin Vice-President, Global Business Policy, Canadian Manufacturers & Exporters

Lise Potvin Director, Sales Tax Division, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Louise Levonian Assistant Deputy Minister, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Brian Ernewein General Director, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Pierre Mercille Chief, Sales Tax Division, GST Legislation, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Annie Carrier Chief, First Nations Taxation Section, Intergovernmental Tax Policy, Evaluation and Research Division, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Wayne Cole Procedural Clerk

9:45 p.m.

NDP

Thomas Mulcair NDP Outremont, QC

I'd like to get on the record that my parliamentary privilege has been affected by the inability of this committee to function. I won't go into the reasons now; they will be discussed tomorrow. If we had had the extra half hour, the modification proposed by the first nations could have been presented. This seriously affects my rights as a parliamentarian, and I will be raising it in the House tomorrow.

December 8th, 2009 / 9:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Thank you, Mr. Mulcair.

Shall clauses 2 to 44 carry?

9:45 p.m.

NDP

Thomas Mulcair NDP Outremont, QC

Don't you have to call them one by one? You just said you have to respect the order. If you have to respect the order, call them one by one.

I would ask for a recorded vote, Mr. Chairman.

9:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

No.

Shall clauses 2 to 44 carry?

(Clauses 2 to 44 inclusive agreed to: yeas 10; nays 1)

9:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Shall the schedule carry?

9:45 p.m.

NDP

Thomas Mulcair NDP Outremont, QC

I have a point of order, Mr. Chairman.

At the beginning of the evening, you explained to committee members that once the amendments had passed, we could table an amendment regarding the addition of a new schedule.

At the beginning of the evening, you told us that only when the clauses were adopted could we look at the amendment adding the request of the first nations with regard to a new schedule 11.

I'm willing to make the following offer and I would like you to entertain it. If, on the one hand, we're able to vote without debate on the amendment as proposed by the first nations, I will consider this a sufficient answer to my point of privilege for tomorrow. If, on the other hand, you insist that we don't have the ability even to vote on that three-line schedule, then I'll have no choice but to raise the point of privilege tomorrow.

9:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Mr. Mulcair, I appreciate the point of order, but the reality is, as I am advised and as I read this order of the House myself, I have no discretion as the chair.

9:45 p.m.

NDP

Thomas Mulcair NDP Outremont, QC

With respect, I'm going to try to help you out here. I would like to make a friendly point to help you.

9:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

If you wish to raise this as a question of privilege, you have every right to do so.

9:45 p.m.

NDP

Thomas Mulcair NDP Outremont, QC

Of course I do. But I think we should avoid troubling the House with a point of privilege. My needs can be satisfied if you would only respect your own decision at the beginning of the meeting. You said at the beginning of the evening that once we had adopted the articles we could look at the amendment with regard to the schedules. You looked at me as you said this, because you knew that we wanted to make this amendment for the first nations. We still want to make it. We can avoid a lot of hassle tomorrow and avoid a point of privilege if you simply allow this amendment to be read—it's three lines long—and the vote to take place. If you do that, we've taken care of the problem.

9:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

I'll hear Mr. Paillé on the same point of order.

9:45 p.m.

Bloc

Daniel Paillé Bloc Hochelaga, QC

I will not quote my colleague to the left when he referred to slavish translations of documents in French written in his own working language, but I personally find it unacceptable that someone could even consider the idea of tabling an amendment written in English only. That shows contempt for my rights and I will never accept a slavish translation in French from his working language.

9:45 p.m.

NDP

Thomas Mulcair NDP Outremont, QC

Out of a desire to assist my friend and colleague, Mr. Paillé, I would like to inform him that a document cannot be tabled in one language only. People will receive it in both languages.

9:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

I've ruled on the point of order. It is an order of the House. The chair of the committee does not have discretion on this matter. That is my statement. It is an order of the House. I am following the order of the House. Committees, as outlined in the new book, are creatures of the House of Commons. So we shall proceed.

9:50 p.m.

NDP

Thomas Mulcair NDP Outremont, QC

I would like a recorded vote, Mr. Chairman.

9:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Shall the schedule carry?

(Schedule agreed to: yeas 10; nays 1)

9:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte