We need to make a distinction. First of all, the eminent professor who appeared before you was probably talking about private pension plans. The insolvency problems associated with these plans since 2001 are due, in large part, to two successive financial crises. Obviously, when interest rates begin to rise and people stop taking premium holidays, it will be possible to stabilize defined benefit pension plans.
However, what you need to know, as members of Parliament, is that six out of every ten Canadians do not have a pension plan. For a small business, it is far less costly to contribute 3% more, over seven years, to a public plan than it is to contribute to a defined benefit plan. I know of few defined benefit plans in Canada where the contribution is less than 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18% and, nowadays, it is as much as 20% or 21%. Rather than contributing to a defined benefit plan, a small business would really be better off contributing to a public plan, because the risk is distributed over the entire population. I think that everyone would benefit from that. You were talking to Ms. Nielson earlier. We are clearly not suggesting that the increase happen all at once. It has to be capitalized and spread over a number of years, as was done when reforms were introduced in 1991.