Evidence of meeting #14 for Finance in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was positions.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Tom McGirr  Chief, Equalization and Policy Development, Department of Finance
Ron Wall  Director, Parliamentary Affairs, Privy Council Office
Claudette Lévesque  Director, Appointments and Selection Processes, Senior Personnel, Privy Council Office
Leah Anderson  Director, Financial Sector Division, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Jean-Claude Primeau  Director, Acturial, Policy and Approvals, Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions
Rakesh Patry  Director, International Policy and Agreements, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
Philippe Hall  Chief, Export Finance Section, International Trade and Finance, Department of Finance
Pascale Dugré-Sasseville  Chief, Consumer Issues, Department of Finance
Kevin Thomas  Senior Economist, Payments, Department of Finance
Rachel Grasham  Chief, Financial Crimes - Domestic, Financial Sector Division, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance

5:05 p.m.

Bloc

Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC

Let me talk about a mishap I had. It happened to me only once. I always try to pay my credit card bills on time. Unfortunately, it seems that I am doing quite a disservice to the merchants by doing that. I have two credit cards: one that I use daily, and one from my bank that I keep as a reserve.

I have travelled for the government. My first trips were to Australia and London. I paid everything with my credit card, for a total of $20,000. I made a mistake when I paid my bills on the Internet. I paid $20,000 on the one that had an outstanding balance of $150, and I paid $150 on the other one. Three weeks later, I received a letter saying that the amount of $19,500 would be credited to my first card. How useful was that! Of course, my payment for the other balance was late. I immediately used the credit of $19,500 to pay. For the first time in my life I went over the 21-day limit and my payment was late. The interest charge was about $2,500, for a 21-day delay. It seems to me that the provisions on usurious rates in the Criminal Code are much lower than that. Finally, after one and a half hours of discussion, I said that I would end 21 years of good cooperation and then I received proposals from other credit card companies. I am going to switch companies.

I still cannot believe that such high amounts can be charged for such a short delay, because of a simple mistake.

Furthermore, merchants in shopping centres in my riding told me that more and more they are compelled to accept credit card payments whereas before people paid cash.

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Massimo Pacetti

Mr. Ménard, your time is almost up.

5:05 p.m.

Bloc

Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC

They tell me that on top of being required to accept credit card payments, fees are increasing. The credit card company regularly increases its fees and there is nothing they can do about it, they have to accept. Furthermore, they tell me that the fees vary depending on whether or not the buyer is a good customer of the credit card company. Good customers like me, who pay their bill on time, do not make them money, since they do not pay interest. So the merchant is being charged more than for a delinquent customer who pays interest to the credit card company. Will you be able to take action against commercial practices such as these with the regulations that are proposed?

5:05 p.m.

Director, Financial Sector Division, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Leah Anderson

A lot of those instances are within the scope of the code, which allows merchants to choose which debit and credit services they accept, and to be able to opt out of contracts and into contracts. So it's very much targeted at dealing with those very real concerns that merchants face.

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Massimo Pacetti

Okay. Merci.

Ms. Block.

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'm going to keep this direct and somewhat simple, I hope. We have established here today that the Minister of Finance has introduced a voluntary code of conduct for the credit and debit card industry. Correct?

5:05 p.m.

Director, Financial Sector Division, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK

We've also established that there is a deadline of May 17 for that industry to adopt the code?

5:05 p.m.

Director, Financial Sector Division, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Leah Anderson

That's right.

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK

And if they don't, he will then regulate the industry. That's what this piece of legislation would do. Correct?

5:10 p.m.

Director, Financial Sector Division, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Leah Anderson

That's right. It would give the regulation-making authority.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK

So would the Jobs and Economic Growth Act have to pass before that occurred?

5:10 p.m.

Director, Financial Sector Division, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK

Thank you.

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Massimo Pacetti

Thank you.

Mr. McKay.

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON

Not so long ago, CIBC had a huge amount of credit card information turn up in Arkansas or some ridiculous place.

I'd better correct myself. Arkansas is not a ridiculous place. Somebody will write to me from Arkansas.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON

Nobody from Arkansas is watching.

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON

Do you think not?

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Massimo Pacetti

Come on, guys. Let's go.

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON

The question therefore is would that kind of situation be captured by this kind of legislation?

5:10 p.m.

Director, Financial Sector Division, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Leah Anderson

That's not within the scope of this.

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON

Where is the code?

April 29th, 2010 / 5:10 p.m.

Director, Financial Sector Division, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Leah Anderson

Where is it?

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON

Yes.

5:10 p.m.

Director, Financial Sector Division, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Leah Anderson

It can be found on the finance website.