Evidence of meeting #15 for Finance in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was part.
A recording is available from Parliament.
3:50 p.m.
Director, Portfolio Management, Crown Corporation Governance - ADC, Department of Transport
Canada Post said it was a risk of lost revenue. We are talking about gross revenue, but not an impact on the corporation's net situation.
3:50 p.m.
Bloc
Robert Carrier Bloc Alfred-Pellan, QC
In any event, when we talk about gross revenue, there is necessarily a net revenue called profit, or loss, at the end of the fiscal year. It is important to know that when we want to assess the bill.
3:50 p.m.
Director, Portfolio Management, Crown Corporation Governance - ADC, Department of Transport
That may be, but I have to say again that it is a risk of lost revenue—only a risk. I don't imagine that this change is going to happen very fast in the market, because the companies that do remailing have been doing business in Canada for decades.
3:50 p.m.
Bloc
Robert Carrier Bloc Alfred-Pellan, QC
So you don't want to give me any information as to whether this is a matter of risking lost profits or eliminating a loss, ultimately. You just want to talk about gross revenue.
3:50 p.m.
Director, Portfolio Management, Crown Corporation Governance - ADC, Department of Transport
Yes.
3:50 p.m.
Bloc
Robert Carrier Bloc Alfred-Pellan, QC
We have no information. You have it, surely, but it is difficult for us to assess. We have to understand the impact of Part 15 of this bill: if Canada Post is losing revenue at the end of the year, there will be consequences for the regular postage rates that will be charged to the public as a whole.
3:50 p.m.
Director, Portfolio Management, Crown Corporation Governance - ADC, Department of Transport
That may be, but we are talking about the potential for a loss of less than 1% of revenue. Canada Post has a really large revenue base. If we look at the estimates for the corporation's performance for the years to come, we see that remailing is not what is going to make the difference between profit and no profit.
3:50 p.m.
Bloc
Robert Carrier Bloc Alfred-Pellan, QC
In any event, for myself, I am going to settle for that half-answer.
As well, earlier, you said that at present there is already competition. But because Canada Post has the exclusive distribution privilege at present, which the bill wants to take away from it, what is the purpose of competition, at that point? I don't understand what the role of the competition is, given that remailing has to be done by the Canada Post Corporation, which has the exclusive right to it.
3:50 p.m.
Director, Portfolio Management, Crown Corporation Governance - ADC, Department of Transport
Essentially, if the change is made, it will be clarified that remail is legal in Canada. If the change is not made, I would expect that the stay on the injunction would not be extended. There's a lot of conditional in there, which is why I didn't attempt to say it in French. If this were not to go through and the injunction were not to be extended, the remail businesses would have to stop their activities. Some of that business could go back to Canada Post. It may go outside the country.
There is a part of this industry that... Companies that print catalogues, for example, take their products to the border and mail them via the United States Postal Service. So if remailing were not legal in Canada, that type of service could be done by companies in the United States instead of Canadian companies and Canadian employees.
3:50 p.m.
Bloc
Robert Carrier Bloc Alfred-Pellan, QC
Ultimately, you seem to be saying that the bill will regularize a situation that to a large extent already exists. Is that it?
3:50 p.m.
Director, Portfolio Management, Crown Corporation Governance - ADC, Department of Transport
Yes.
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I have two things. The first is with regard to the numbers that Canada Post is quoting you. You've been clear numerous times, and I just want to be sure about this.
The remailers have been in business for 20 years in this country. The numbers they're saying that they potentially could lose--have they already built that in as revenues that they've already lost because they're in a competitive marketplace with these other businesses? Or is this additional money that they think they might lose if they become in line with the law?
3:55 p.m.
Director, Portfolio Management, Crown Corporation Governance - ADC, Department of Transport
I'm not sure if the statement I had from Canada Post was as specific as that. The quote I have is that it is a revenue risk of $40 million to $80 million on a total revenue stream of $7.3 billion, and the corporation intends to vigorously compete for that business.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
Okay. So if they come in front of us in the future, I will ask that specific question.
Have you been in the department on this file for a number of years, if you don't mind me asking?
3:55 p.m.
Director, Portfolio Management, Crown Corporation Governance - ADC, Department of Transport
I've been with the department for two years, but I arrived after Bill C-14was first tabled.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
Thank you.
I'm not sure if you're aware...and you can just tell me if you're not. I want to quote something for you.
I really wish Ms. Crombie was here. But I will send it to her, don't you worry.
The discussion was that this was a shift in policy, and the quote is this:
Canada Post is pursuing injunctions against a number of small Canadian businesses that are in the business of international re-mailing, some of which have been in business for 20 years. Thousands of employees will lose their jobs, hundreds of businesses will close and Canada will lose $150 million in business. What will it be: monopolistic abuses by Canada Post or vigorous competition from small business?
And it asks if the minister will use his authority to tell Canada Post to withdraw its assault on small business.
That was a quote from John McKay when he was Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance.
Had you heard that quote before?
3:55 p.m.
An hon. member
No. She wasn't even there.
3:55 p.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
--that is my question.
I'll take that as a no, but I appreciate putting on the record that this was actually Liberal policy that the Conservatives thought was so good we put it forward, making it happen, because they could never do it.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
Thank you.
We'll go to Monsieur Paillé, and then to Monsieur Mulcair.
3:55 p.m.
Bloc
Daniel Paillé Bloc Hochelaga, QC
Mr. Généreux continued in the same vein when he said it already exists. So either the bill serves no purpose, if it already existed, or, as you seem to have been saying for two or three answers, it is to legalize a situation that has been going on for 20 years. That means that for 20 years, Canadian companies, that are going to compete legally with the Canada Post Corporation in this area, have been carrying on a business in Canada that is flatly illegal. At that point, we are saying, because an order has been made, that it is easier to grant a pardon than to have asked permission. That is what you seem to be telling us.
As well, with all due respect to the people at the Department of Finance, since I have been in your position in another department of finance, when you are required, you, the people in the Department of Finance, I don't really know how, to come and defend a bill about the Canada Post Corporation, I understand that sometimes your answers will be less precise than when you are asked a genuinely tax-related question.
3:55 p.m.
Director, Portfolio Management, Crown Corporation Governance - ADC, Department of Transport
I would perhaps address an earlier part of your question.