Evidence of meeting #35 for Finance in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was program.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Hilary Pearson  President, Philanthropic Foundations Canada
William Van Tassel  President, Ontario-Quebec Grain Farmers' Coalition
Leo Guilbeault  Chair (Ontario), Ontario-Quebec Grain Farmers' Coalition
Andrew McKee  President and Chief Executive Officer, Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation Canada
Katherine Walker  Chair, Board of Directors, Sarnia Lambton Chamber of Commerce
Garry McDonald  President, Sarnia Lambton Chamber of Commerce
Robin Etherington  President and Chief Executive Officer, RCMP Heritage Centre
David MacKay  President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Association of Agri-Retailers
Kithio Mwanzia  Policy Coordinator, St. Catharines - Thorold Chamber of Commerce
David Marit  President, Saskatchewan Association of Rural Municipalities
Robin Bobocel  Vice-President, Public Affairs, Edmonton Chamber of Commerce
Guy Lonechild  Federation of Saskatchewan Indian Nations
John Dickie  President, Canadian Federation of Apartment Associations
Diana Mendes  Spokesperson, Saskatchewan Rental Housing Industry Association
Rick Hersack  Chief Economist, Edmonton Chamber of Commerce

11:40 a.m.

Vice-President, Public Affairs, Edmonton Chamber of Commerce

Robin Bobocel

Mr. Chairman, thank you for the question.

First of all, as I stated in my remarks, we feel that ACCA is not a subsidy to any particular industry. It's in fact deferred tax revenue. It's revenue that, arguably, the federal government would not receive due to the fact the majority of these projects would not be approved by their proponents without some sort of an incentive such as ACCA.

With respect to your question about excess capacity south of the border, the oil sands industry is predicting—and I stand to be corrected—an almost doubling of production over the next five to ten years, so much so that we expect there will not end up being excess capacity for refining of oil sands bitumen. I'm sure you are aware that the bitumen coming out of Alberta's oil sands is significantly different from feed stock that's used primarily by refineries and upgraders south of the border. They do need to be retooled, and at significant cost. That does create an opportunity for Alberta and Canada to realize some of that potential by incenting the construction of upgrading capacity in Alberta and other places in Canada.

11:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Okay, thank you, I appreciate that.

Mr. Pacetti, please.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC

I just have a quick question for the Edmonton Chamber of Commerce. To fund the completion of the all-weather north-south Trans-Canada Highway, what would be the cost? What are you looking at?

11:40 a.m.

Chief Economist, Edmonton Chamber of Commerce

Rick Hersack

It's in the order of over $1 billion.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC

That's $1 billion?

11:40 a.m.

Chief Economist, Edmonton Chamber of Commerce

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC

And would there be—

11:40 a.m.

Chief Economist, Edmonton Chamber of Commerce

Rick Hersack

I'll check my documentation. It's there.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC

And would it just be through federal participation, or would it be joint?

11:40 a.m.

Chief Economist, Edmonton Chamber of Commerce

Rick Hersack

It would cost roughly $1.2 billion to extend the highway from its current terminus near Wrigley to Tuktoyaktuk.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC

And it would just be federal participation?

11:40 a.m.

Chief Economist, Edmonton Chamber of Commerce

Rick Hersack

Potentially it could be a combination, but that is the cost.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC

Okay, thank you.

Paul.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Paul Szabo Liberal Mississauga South, ON

Let's carry on with the chamber for Edmonton. I think you've included in your submission an important area. That's recommendation 5 about program review, basically. Obviously, there has to be an assertion that what's already happening should be happening.

I'd like to go down and look at this. The second-last point you raised in that recommendation was whether the federal government was acting within its well-known constitutional responsibilities. This is always an interesting angle, but as you know, there are many examples of where the province, the municipalities, and the fed get together on cross-jurisdictional issues in the public interest where we have some possibilities of....

Is there any area that you are aware of that possibly could be a constitutional responsibility issue? Ever?

11:45 a.m.

Chief Economist, Edmonton Chamber of Commerce

Rick Hersack

I'm going to defer answering that at this point in time. There are several areas that I believe we could consider grey areas.

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Paul Szabo Liberal Mississauga South, ON

Okay. The government does get advice about constitutionality of its activities before cabinet gets approval.

The other aspect that caught my attention is looking for an activity to be assumed by the private or the voluntary sector. I think this issue of downloading has been a big issue, and governments have been accused of being downloaders.

Are you aware of any successful or suggested areas of government activity that could be downloaded to the voluntary or private sector and be done as effectively and responsibly as is necessary?

11:45 a.m.

Chief Economist, Edmonton Chamber of Commerce

Rick Hersack

We haven't looked at that kind of detail.

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Paul Szabo Liberal Mississauga South, ON

So these are just general.

11:45 a.m.

Chief Economist, Edmonton Chamber of Commerce

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Paul Szabo Liberal Mississauga South, ON

They're just general guidelines.

11:45 a.m.

Chief Economist, Edmonton Chamber of Commerce

Rick Hersack

General, high-level statements.

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Paul Szabo Liberal Mississauga South, ON

Where did you get these?

11:45 a.m.

Chief Economist, Edmonton Chamber of Commerce

Rick Hersack

Our volunteer committee.

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Paul Szabo Liberal Mississauga South, ON

Did they actually draft this? Is this what your view would be as to what a program review would entail?

11:45 a.m.

Chief Economist, Edmonton Chamber of Commerce

Rick Hersack

Yes, and as a matter of fact, we partnered with the Canadian Chamber of Commerce and their own finance and taxation committee in developing these recommendations. So certainly if you've seen them before, you're correct in that.