Finance Committee on Oct. 20th, 2010

[Andrew Jackson]

I'll let Mr. Sanger respond to it.

[Toby Sanger]

It's true that we've had strong economic growth, but it hasn't gone to family incomes or to ordinary wages—

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

Well, yes, it has. The OECD states that it has, so I'm not sure where you're getting your reference.

[Toby Sanger]

Well, Statistics Canada reported just a couple of years ago, and I can send you that reference.

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

Today's OECD reports are saying that it's grown. We're the eighth strongest, so I do appreciate that.

[Toby Sanger]

In terms of economic growth, not necessarily the incomes.

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

Very quickly, Ms. Gellman, before us this fall we have a private member's bill that will actually—and I'm very troubled by it—cap wages given to fundraisers. Our professional fundraisers in this country are just that, they're professionals. I think we need to be focusing on accountability and transparency rather than suggesting that we just cap these, because it will encompass university presidents, heads of hospitals, those sorts of things.

What are your thoughts on that? I'm sure you've had a look at that.

[Amanda Gellman]

I have, especially coming out of the hospital and university sector. I agree that the cap will not work for presidents of hospitals and university researchers. On the fundraising end, if you look at most professional fundraisers—if not almost all in this country—their salaries are way below anything that we would even come near.

The importance of our organization, again as mentioned before, is that we promote professional ethics, so we want fundraisers to be professional. The salary cap for most of our organizations doesn't apply, but we're against the cap because it does apply to people outside of the fundraising profession who work in charities and non-profits.

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

That's the unfortunate, and I hope unintended, consequence. But it will actually target university presidents.

[Amanda Gellman]

Universities and hospitals.

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

And chairs of hospital boards, chairs of library boards. We would encourage you to get on the list as a witness to come back here when we're studying that bill.

[Amanda Gellman]

Thank you. I will.

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Final round.

Mr. Mulcair.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair

I would like to give Mr. Sanger the opportunity to complete his answer to Mr. Menzies.

[Toby Sanger]

I think it may be a difference in interpretation there. Perhaps the figures that you were looking at, as reported by the OECD, reported on the mean average as opposed to the median average. The median measures the mid-point and the mean averages everything added together and then divided.

What we've had in Canada over the past quarter century is increasing income inequality, particularly at the top end. That brings the mean average up, but the median--that's what the normal average Canadian family might have--has remained pretty much stagnant over the past quarter century.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

I would now like to question—

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

A point of order, Mr. Pacetti.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Mr. Sanger has been quoting from a document that I don't think we have. Is it possible to get a copy of that document?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Do we have that document? We have it, but it is in English only. We will ensure all members get a copy.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

I would like to question Mr. Jackson.

You raised an interesting issue relating to access to unemployment insurance. You said that the portion of unemployed people who are eligible for unemployment insurance has dropped from 51% to 45%. Is that not a way of transferring the burden to the provinces, which the Conservatives always said they would never do?

I remember that, when they were in power, from 1993 to 2006, the Liberals had transferred their fiscal problems to the provinces. Today, if people are not eligible to unemployment insurance—let us recall that the Liberals took $60 billion from the unemployment insurance fund—it means that this responsibility is being transferred to the provinces, not as unemployment insurance but as social assistance. Once again, the government is transferring the burden to the provinces, is it not?

[Andrew Jackson]

There's certainly no doubt that compared to previous recessions, the proportion of unemployed workers in this recession qualifying for benefits was much lower. Actually, you understated the gravity of this. It is 45% of the unemployed today, as we speak, who are collecting benefits. It hit a high point of just over 50% back in June.

It's interesting if you look at that in regional terms. Perhaps somewhat surprisingly, the biggest shortfall is in the greater Toronto area. Believe it or not, about one in five of all unemployed workers in Canada live in the greater Toronto area, and they are only about 10% of all EI beneficiaries.

I think it's in those areas, where people move from employment insurance to a very low-wage, temporary job and are unable to qualify, where the biggest burden is falling. There are all kinds of offloads to the provinces.

I certainly agree that for all provinces, as people are exhausting EI benefits, as they turn to social assistance, clearly that is a--

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

Then the provinces have the responsibility.

I would like to complete my comments because the bells have started ringing and we will soon be short of time.

Mr. Sanger, I want to congratulate you for your suggestion to create a national fund to finance the new standards, which is most creative. This relates to public health, job creation and federal-provincial cooperation for sustainable development. This suggestion deserves serious thinking and is most promising, I believe.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[Toby Sanger]

Thank you.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.