Finance Committee on March 1st, 2011

[Paul Szabo, Liberal, Mississauga South, ON]

In preparation, did you have a list of anticipated questions and answers?

[Filipe Dinis]

In the context of the supplementary estimates (C), I did.

[Paul Szabo, Liberal, Mississauga South, ON]

Were any of those matters related to responses to matters outside the specific numeric exercise?

[Filipe Dinis]

Mr. Chair, no, what I have is in the context of the supplementary estimates (C).

[Paul Szabo, Liberal, Mississauga South, ON]

Mr. Pacetti will use the rest of the time.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

You have a little over three minutes.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

I don't see the agency as having cabinet confidence where there are areas you wouldn't be able to discuss. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I imagine there would be areas or things that the CRA would not want to discuss so that it's not public in terms of its detailed operations, but I don't think there's been anything discussed here that's been a cabinet confidence.

[Filipe Dinis]

Mr. Chair, we are very sensitive in the agency to the information that we hold as it relates to specific taxpayer information, obviously. We respect that. In our language, it's our section 241. Obviously, given the information that we hold, we are very, very sensitive to maintaining the trust, as one member indicated earlier, of the institution of the CRA. We adhere to that.

We are also very sensitive in the public domain vis-à-vis the privacy concerns, again, in terms of individuals or any files that we're dealing with on an individual basis. We believe strongly that's a cornerstone of what we do and of our reputation. We adhere to those principles.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

That's what I would think, but I don't think there's been any questioning from any member of the committee in terms of specific individuals or specific privacy concerns. It's basically operational concerns. We haven't necessarily gotten direct answers. As some of the other members have said, we're here to try to help you, and if you do need more resources, we're willing to look at it.

We've been going around in circles. I think you have had questions from both sides, so I don't think it's a matter of being partisan, but it's a question of trying to get the CRA to work more efficiently.

My question is directed more to what Mr. Wallace was asking initially in terms of the CRA having more debts and more outstanding debts to collect, and meanwhile you're getting more resources year in and year out. Add to that the fact that there are some internal problems at the CRA. Is the CRA able to handle these hiccups? Do you have enough resources to do so? I think we're all having trouble with that. We're not getting our heads around it.

[Filipe Dinis]

Mr. Chair, we believe we're well positioned to deal with the concern that has been raised. In terms of the efficiencies, we have a large budget, but we also manage it very effectively, and what we do on an annual and regular basis is to realign our dollars and cents, our priorities, as we need to realign them. Currently in the context of the challenge that has been shared vis-à-vis the situation in Montreal, we have realigned resources from within the agency to address that particular challenge.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

As an MP and also as an accountant, in terms of the complaints I get, besides those concerning immigration, those about CRA have been going up and up and up, with regard to all facets, whether it's compliance, timeliness, collections, or you name it. That's not something I want to just throw at you, but it's a problem that I have from both sides.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you.

Mr. Dinis, do you want to respond briefly?

[Filipe Dinis]

I will, very quickly, if I may, Mr. Chair. We obviously take complaints seriously, so that's something we continue to focus on. We are a large organization, and we try to address all of the complaints that are brought to our attention.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you.

We'll go to Ms. Glover, please.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I just want to make sure that I am also understanding, because it seems to me what I'm hearing on this side of the room isn't what they're hearing on the other side of the room. I'm not sure why there's a disconnect.

I heard you very clearly state that you prepared for a specific reason to come before committee today and that there is other information being asked of you today on which you're absolutely willing to get back to the committee, which we appreciate. I believe you've been open. You said you're not sure exactly what it is that the numbers are reflecting with regard to questions that my colleagues are asking, and I appreciate that.

I don't think I've heard you say that you're not willing to come back. I don't think I've heard you say that you're not willing to look into the matter. I think you've been very forthright about that and I appreciate that. I personally cannot expect you to know everything that goes on in CRA, with 43,000 employees, and expect you to answer every single thing that might come up in a committee meeting.

Is that what you've said here today? Am I correct in my reiteration of what I've heard on this side of the room?

[Filipe Dinis]

Mr. Chair, I am committed to providing the responses to all of the questions that are asked. In some cases, there were questions to which I did not have the answer, but I'm committed to coming back to the committee, as we have in the past, with timely responses.

For questions that were asked, as well, I've tried to provide as much detail as I can vis-à-vis the particular file, and I'll continue to do so. I've been in front of this committee several times. I remain committed to providing the answers to all of the questions, and if I don't have them, again, I believe we have a strong record of providing responses in a timely fashion to the committee.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Thank you. I think that's pretty clear for everyone. I appreciate that.

Can I ask you a question about something you said right off the bat? You said that with regard to the employees who were transferred from the provinces to the feds, it was 80% in Ontario. Did I understand correctly what you said? You said that in B.C. it was 99%. So what happened with the other 20% in Ontario? Was that attrition?

[Filipe Dinis]

Mr. Chair, there's a combination. There was indeed attrition. Some of the individuals, given where they were in their careers, determined that they did not want to join the agency, because these individuals would indeed have become CRA employees, as some have. Due to a variety of factors, they decided not to accept the job offers that we made to them.

I've also indicated that there are other points in time coming up where a few additional job offers will be made to employees. Our projection is that in British Columbia, for example, without necessarily speculating too much, there's going to be a 98% acceptance of our job offers. In the context of Ontario, we are projecting that there will be an approximately 90% acceptance rate as we move forward with making those additional job offers. Those who don't accept do not for a variety of reasons, one of which is the point they are at in their careers.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

That's very good. I just wanted to clarify that, because we know how important jobs are at this very fragile time in the economy, and it's nice to hear that the families in those two provinces who are directly linked to this decision have not in fact been negatively impacted by it, particularly because of our economic situation. I appreciate that information.

Those are my questions, Mr. Chair.

Would anyone on my side like to take the rest of my time?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

There's one minute left, if there's a brief question.

No? Okay. Thank you.

We'll go back to Mr. Szabo.

[Paul Szabo, Liberal, Mississauga South, ON]

With regard to the operational costs of CRA, what percentage is related to human resources?

[Filipe Dinis]

Our salary envelope is approximately 70% of our overall budget of $4 billion.

[Paul Szabo, Liberal, Mississauga South, ON]

What proportion of our human resources costs are related to investigations?

[Filipe Dinis]

Mr. Chair, I'd have to come back with that detailed amount. I don't have that here.

I can share with the committee that we have increased our resources by 10% in the investigations area.

[Paul Szabo, Liberal, Mississauga South, ON]

Over what period?