Finance Committee on March 1st, 2011

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Okay. Thank you.

I have about four minutes. I just want to follow up on Mr. Wallace's initial question. I realize that it may be outside the specific angle of the two votes we're doing with respect to the supplementary estimates, but I think we do need to provide an answer as to why there was a fairly substantial increase in the budget for CRA over the last number of years.

Can you answer that? You can certainly follow up with additional information, but I should give you the opportunity to answer that question.

In general, frankly, as a member of Parliament and as a citizen, I'm very impressed with CRA and the work it does. I use Netfile myself and I find it very efficient. We visited CRA's facility last year and were very impressed as a committee generally, but I think there does need to be a fairly substantive answer to Mr. Wallace's question.

[Filipe Dinis]

If I may--and I commit to coming back with a more fulsome response--one of the main items that I'd like to share with you is that with 70% of our budget being on the salary side on a $4-billion budget, salary increases represent a significant portion of that year-over-year increase. In addition to that, we've had the corporate tax for administration for Ontario, which was a significant initiative for the agency over the last couple of years, so that has been a significant increase in our budget. Also, most recently, there was the harmonization of the sales tax as well. While a more detailed accounting of the increases will be provided, those are some significant items that have increased over the years and have resulted in our budget going up.

In addition to that, over the last several years some specific budgetary items were announced by the government that the CRA was asked to implement. Associated with those, obviously, are incremental costs for administrating those programs. Those are some highlights, but I will provide a more fulsome accounting.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

I have a final question. I realize again that I'm standing beyond the exact purview of what we're talking about, but a question was raised about the tax-free savings account, which I have to say has been very well received by people who I'm talking to. This may be more of a question for Finance officials, but how many tax-free accounts in fact are you aware of that Canadians have opened since the program was made available?

[Filipe Dinis]

Mr. Chair, I do have the data for the take-up rate for 2009. Over 4.8 million accounts were opened for the TFSA. As it relates to the take-up rate for 2010, obviously it's too early to provide that figure. That will be available after the tax filing season, which is in the mid-June timeframe. So far in 2009 there were 4.8 million accounts opened.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Okay. Thank you for that information.

Mr. Paillé, on a point of order.

[Daniel Paillé, Bloc, Hochelaga, QC]

I have a point of order.

I'm really surprised to see that you have information on a minor detail that has nothing to do with the votes, whereas, throughout the meeting, you've responded to us by saying that you didn't have the information requested.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

It's a point of debate.

I, for one, appreciate that information.

I will now go to Mr. Mulcair, please.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Dinis, so that there's no further misunderstanding at the end of the meeting, I would like to know how much time you intend to take to provide us with the requested information. In fact, I should say items of information since you've committed to providing us with information on a number of topics. How long will it take for us to receive it?

[Filipe Dinis]

As soon as possible, Mr. Chairman. I'm going to go back to the office and note down all the questions. I've promised to provide that information, and I want to assure the committee that

I will definitely put my attention and urgency into getting those responses to the committee.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

Mr. Dinis mentioned dismissals earlier. He's going to provide us with the exact number, but I wanted to confirm that there indeed were a number of dismissals.

[Filipe Dinis]

It is more than one dismissal, Mr. Chair. As you know from the media, going back to 2009, there were four public dismissals. I just want to make sure I provide you with the right numbers. So yes, it is more than one.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

Mr. Dinis referred on a number of occasions to a code of conduct that I'm going to take the liberty of translating as a "code de déontologie" or a "code de conduite". Another code may apply, in this instance the Criminal Code, in view of the fact that criminal charges have been laid against the persons dismissed.

[Filipe Dinis]

From the code of conduct perspective, it is the CRA code of conduct that we expect all of our employees to adhere to.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

There's also a Criminal Code that we expect all Canadians to adhere to and it applies also to the members.

[Filipe Dinis]

Correct, and in the context of the Criminal Code, that is obviously something that is pursued by the RCMP. Any work along those lines is done by the RCMP. As far as I'm aware at this point in time, there have not been any criminal charges, but it's something that I really can't speak to because it's something that's pursued by the RCMP.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

That's an important question. I'm going to continue in English with Mr. Dinis to make sure there's no misunderstanding. The CRA can bring administrative recourses against the taxpayer--fines of all sorts for failure. If someone falls into the area of criminal fraud under the tax statutes, the agency can still bring those criminal charges itself, or do you have to go through the RCMP in every case?

[Filipe Dinis]

We go through the RCMP. When the agency encounters situations of criminal activity, they're referred to the RCMP.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

Okay. So there's no--

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Sorry, Mr. Mulcair, we have bells. There's a 30-minute bell.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

No, it was at 10 o'clock.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

There's a vote, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

If there are bells, we cannot continue unless I have unanimous consent of the committee. Okay?

Sorry, Mr. Mulcair.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

No, no. I actually agree with that.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you.

The meeting is adjourned.