Finance Committee on March 1st, 2011

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

I would like to know how many employees work with the CRA.

[Filipe Dinis]

We have approximately 43,000 employees across the country.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

I can't possibly imagine how much criticism they get over their time, so please pass on from us that we know they're doing a very good job. For the most part, they take a lot of unnecessary criticism, and I personally want to thank them, because I know they work very hard for us, and Canadians certainly appreciate the work they get from those public servants.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you, Ms. Glover.

We'll go to Mr. Pacetti.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I guess my question goes more towards the allegations of the corruption inside Revenue Canada. I think some of my colleagues referred to it already, and I think your answer was that you have everything under control.

If you have everything under control.... For me, the solution would be quite easy. You would either fire everybody, so you would probably ask for less money, or you would hire additional staff and you would ask for more money. I don't happen to see that in the supplementaries, so I'd like your comments on that.

[Filipe Dinis]

Mr. Chair, in response to the previous questions, I mentioned that the agency was taking this very seriously. We are taking measures from various perspectives to deal with the issue. It's an ongoing effort.

We have a workforce of 43,000 employees, as I just referenced, and in any large organization such as one with 43,000 employees, unfortunately there are some employees who don't respect the CRA's code of conduct. We have a long history of being able to take these matters seriously, and we take action. We will continue to do so.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Fine. So what are some of those actions? What are some of those measures? Wouldn't you have to incur additional costs whatever those measures were to be?

[Filipe Dinis]

Mr. Chair, we have a capacity within the agency and we conduct this on a regular basis. It's part of our day-to-day business in terms of looking into those kinds of allegations, and that's exactly what we're doing.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

So what has happened recently is not something that's unusual? Is that what you're saying?

[Filipe Dinis]

Mr. Chair, I don't want to go too far in commenting on—

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Well, you haven't gone anywhere, so if you could just answer the question directly, we can move on. I mean, the problem is in trying to understand, because again, we're here for estimates, and next year we're going to get a nice big bill, and it will be a shock and a surprise to us.

[Filipe Dinis]

As it relates to the estimates and the financial implications, as I referenced, the agency has a capacity and it's part of our doing business to look into those kinds of allegations, which at times results in dismissals. We plan to continue to do that within the capacity that we've had in the agency for a while.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

You don't seem to be worried that it's systemic and that it's something that runs rampant throughout the CRA. Do you think it's just an isolated case?

[Filipe Dinis]

The agency is always concerned with those kinds of allegations. We have a history of taking action on them. Yes, we are concerned, but at the same time, we are putting measures in place to avoid similar situations in the future. In the interim, we are taking action where action is required.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Okay. Do those measures require additional funds?

[Filipe Dinis]

At this point in time, those measures don't require additional funds because they are part of what the agency does on a regular basis in terms of investigating and moving forward with improving our processes.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you, Mr. Pacetti.

I just want to follow up on one question.

Why are you being so cautious with us in terms of providing details in response to the questions that Mr. Pacetti is asking? Is there a reason that we should be aware of?

[Filipe Dinis]

Mr. Chair, my understanding from the media is that there is a motion under consideration by the committee, and I just wanted to be respectful of that particular discussion.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Okay. I may follow up on that.

I'll go to Ms. Block, please.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to join my colleagues in welcoming you here this morning.

I, too, want to follow up on a comment that my colleague Mr. Pacetti made in terms of the gimmicks, in his characterization, that this government has initiated.

In the time since we have formed the government, we've made 120 tax reductions for Canadians. This has reduced the overall burden on Canadians to its lowest in 50 years. We reach tax freedom day 21 days earlier than we did in 2005. The average family has up to an additional $3,000 in their pockets annually.

[An hon. member]

Hear, hear!

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

I think those “gimmicks” have really resulted in some savings for Canadians. I just wanted to make that point and get that on the record.

I am very interested in the discussion that we've had today about the HST. You briefly referenced Nova Scotia's affordable living tax credit, which is supported through these votes that we're discussing.

In your opening comments, you also stated that the HST for Ontario and British Columbia, as well as the new affordable living tax credit for Nova Scotia, have resulted in a significant increase in the agency's workload across a number of core programs. As mentioned by my colleagues, the HST is a choice the provinces can make, but it does have an impact on the CRA.

I'm wondering if you could briefly describe for me Nova Scotia's affordable living tax and approximately what proportion of these funds would be used for the administration of this tax credit.

[Richard Case]

At this point in time, we don't have the costs separated out for that particular credit. We assessed our workload requirements on the whole over the three provinces, so at this point in time we don't have a separate cost related to the Nova Scotia affordable living tax credit.

But it is a program that we began delivering in July 2010. It is very much aligned with the GST credit that the federal government was already delivering across Canada. As I understand it, under that particular Nova Scotia program, eligible households receive about $240 plus $57 for each dependent child. That goes to households with net incomes of less than $30,000. It is very similar to the GST credit. It is a supplement that the Province of Nova Scotia is giving to low-income households.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

Just to follow up on that, it's my understanding that Nova Scotia has the HST, that this was an additional decision taken by Nova Scotia, which then has an impact on the CRA. In terms of the autonomy that we talk about for provinces when it comes to the HST, there's a similar autonomy to take decisions like this that will result in an impact for the CRA down the road. Is that correct?