Evidence of meeting #62 for Finance in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was information.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Russ Hiebert Conservative South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC
What percentage of those would be from individuals versus corporations?
Assistant Director, Financial Analysis and Disclosures, Financial Transactions and Reports Analysis Centre of Canada
I would say the vast majority of reports come from companies, whether they are banks, credit unions, casinos, real estate agents, or dealers in precious metals and stones. Of course there may be some individuals who have their own companies and who are operating as individuals as opposed to corporations, but the vast majority come from financial institutions.
Conservative
Russ Hiebert Conservative South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC
But they're dealing with corporate transactions, legitimate transactions involving Canadians who are simply involved in business around the world?
Assistant Director, Financial Analysis and Disclosures, Financial Transactions and Reports Analysis Centre of Canada
They are reporting according to the requirements set in the law on suspicious transactions, cash transactions over $10,000, and so on.
Conservative
Russ Hiebert Conservative South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC
Of those 64,000 suspicious transactions, how many translate into files? What I'm trying to get at here is how many active files you have. I'd like you to speculate on how many individuals or businesses you think are involved in money laundering in Canada.
Assistant Director, Financial Analysis and Disclosures, Financial Transactions and Reports Analysis Centre of Canada
I don't have those numbers. I may receive many suspicious transactions on the same individual or the same company, and so on, so it's very difficult for me. I can say that typically we will produce roughly about 600 cases a year. A case can involve thousands and thousands of transactions--EFTs mostly, suspicious transactions. We also include open-source information to give context to what's happening.
I'm afraid I can't—
Conservative
Russ Hiebert Conservative South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC
You obviously know there are about 600 cases that you are pursuing, but if you had to speculate, what percentage of the industry would you think you are on top of? How many people, individuals, corporations, or illegitimate businesses do you think are actively money laundering in Canada? How well are you addressing the problem?
Assistant Director, Financial Analysis and Disclosures, Financial Transactions and Reports Analysis Centre of Canada
Certainly from a detection point of view, it's very difficult to know what you don't know. I can say with confidence that we've certainly increased the number of cases we've detected. We've gone from an average of maybe 165 over five years to now over 600. We're detecting a lot of cases, and we're detecting a lot more companies that are involved.
Conservative
Russ Hiebert Conservative South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC
But it's hard to know how many there are doing what you're doing.
Assistant Director, Financial Analysis and Disclosures, Financial Transactions and Reports Analysis Centre of Canada
I can't, I'm sorry.
Conservative
Russ Hiebert Conservative South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC
Fair enough.
In your opening remarks, you mentioned that when specific additional statutory tests are met, you disclose information to CRA, CBSA, and CSE, and you also mentioned you disclose information to foreign financial intelligence.
Assistant Director, Financial Analysis and Disclosures, Financial Transactions and Reports Analysis Centre of Canada
That's correct.
Conservative
Russ Hiebert Conservative South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC
Do you do that voluntarily, or do you do that only when they request?
Assistant Director, Financial Analysis and Disclosures, Financial Transactions and Reports Analysis Centre of Canada
We must disclose to police forces when we—
Conservative
Assistant Director, Financial Analysis and Disclosures, Financial Transactions and Reports Analysis Centre of Canada
To the international...no, it's “may”. What the law says is we “may” disclose to a foreign party.
Conservative
Russ Hiebert Conservative South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC
So you may voluntarily disclose this information?
Assistant Director, Financial Analysis and Disclosures, Financial Transactions and Reports Analysis Centre of Canada
Or even if they request information from us, we are not obligated to provide the information. We decide.
Conservative
Assistant Director, Financial Analysis and Disclosures, Financial Transactions and Reports Analysis Centre of Canada
Quite a bit. If my numbers are correct, we have over 200 what we call FIUQs, queries from foreign jurisdictions. We have a network of about 73 countries that we've signed agreements with, so the exchange with our partners is extremely important for us.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Massimo Pacetti
Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Hiebert.
Just to clarify what Mr. Hiebert was saying, the 65,000 transactions on a daily basis are not just the suspicious ones, they're just some that are—
Assistant Director, Financial Analysis and Disclosures, Financial Transactions and Reports Analysis Centre of Canada
Yes, on a daily basis I might receive over 200 suspicious transaction reports. The rest are large cash...the rest in a day are—
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Massimo Pacetti
So when you're receiving a mandated transaction over $10,000 and it becomes suspicious, the bank or the institution tells you they think this is suspicious?
Assistant Director, Financial Analysis and Disclosures, Financial Transactions and Reports Analysis Centre of Canada
They could be separate reports. They are required to send us separate reports, suspicious transaction reports, and if it's over $10,000 cash—it must be cash—they will send us a report. Those are separate, but they can tell us they think that $10,000 is separate, or they can tell us one dollar is suspicious, for whatever reasons they've determined.
Liberal