Finance Committee on March 8th, 2011

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

What percentage of those would be from individuals versus corporations?

[Denis Meunier]

I would say the vast majority of reports come from companies, whether they are banks, credit unions, casinos, real estate agents, or dealers in precious metals and stones. Of course there may be some individuals who have their own companies and who are operating as individuals as opposed to corporations, but the vast majority come from financial institutions.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

But they're dealing with corporate transactions, legitimate transactions involving Canadians who are simply involved in business around the world?

[Denis Meunier]

They are reporting according to the requirements set in the law on suspicious transactions, cash transactions over $10,000, and so on.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

Of those 64,000 suspicious transactions, how many translate into files? What I'm trying to get at here is how many active files you have. I'd like you to speculate on how many individuals or businesses you think are involved in money laundering in Canada.

[Denis Meunier]

I don't have those numbers. I may receive many suspicious transactions on the same individual or the same company, and so on, so it's very difficult for me. I can say that typically we will produce roughly about 600 cases a year. A case can involve thousands and thousands of transactions--EFTs mostly, suspicious transactions. We also include open-source information to give context to what's happening.

I'm afraid I can't—

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

You obviously know there are about 600 cases that you are pursuing, but if you had to speculate, what percentage of the industry would you think you are on top of? How many people, individuals, corporations, or illegitimate businesses do you think are actively money laundering in Canada? How well are you addressing the problem?

[Denis Meunier]

Certainly from a detection point of view, it's very difficult to know what you don't know. I can say with confidence that we've certainly increased the number of cases we've detected. We've gone from an average of maybe 165 over five years to now over 600. We're detecting a lot of cases, and we're detecting a lot more companies that are involved.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

But it's hard to know how many there are doing what you're doing.

[Denis Meunier]

I can't, I'm sorry.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

Fair enough.

In your opening remarks, you mentioned that when specific additional statutory tests are met, you disclose information to CRA, CBSA, and CSE, and you also mentioned you disclose information to foreign financial intelligence.

[Denis Meunier]

That's correct.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

Do you do that voluntarily, or do you do that only when they request?

[Denis Meunier]

We must disclose to police forces when we—

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

I'm talking about international.

[Denis Meunier]

To the international...no, it's “may”. What the law says is we “may” disclose to a foreign party.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

So you may voluntarily disclose this information?

[Denis Meunier]

Or even if they request information from us, we are not obligated to provide the information. We decide.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

And how much of that is going on?

[Denis Meunier]

Quite a bit. If my numbers are correct, we have over 200 what we call FIUQs, queries from foreign jurisdictions. We have a network of about 73 countries that we've signed agreements with, so the exchange with our partners is extremely important for us.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Massimo Pacetti]

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Hiebert.

Just to clarify what Mr. Hiebert was saying, the 65,000 transactions on a daily basis are not just the suspicious ones, they're just some that are—

[Denis Meunier]

Yes, on a daily basis I might receive over 200 suspicious transaction reports. The rest are large cash...the rest in a day are—

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Massimo Pacetti]

So when you're receiving a mandated transaction over $10,000 and it becomes suspicious, the bank or the institution tells you they think this is suspicious?

[Denis Meunier]

They could be separate reports. They are required to send us separate reports, suspicious transaction reports, and if it's over $10,000 cash—it must be cash—they will send us a report. Those are separate, but they can tell us they think that $10,000 is separate, or they can tell us one dollar is suspicious, for whatever reasons they've determined.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Massimo Pacetti]

Thank you.

Mr. Mulcair, you have five minutes.