Evidence of meeting #63 for Finance in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was banks.
A recording is available from Parliament.
10:10 a.m.
Chairman, Research on Public Finance and Taxation, Professor, Université de Sherbrooke, As an Individual
Yes. After five years, if there is no evidence that the legislation has really worked, you get rid of it. You “flush” it, as we say in proper French.
10:10 a.m.
NDP
Thomas Mulcair NDP Outremont, QC
In proper French, yes.
I want to come back to our previous discussion, because I think there are still some relatively simple things that could be done here from a banking perspective.
In our previous hearings, we discussed the possibility of requiring that people produce a return. No one is saying that it is illegal to have a bank account in another country. There simply has to be a requirement to declare it.
10:10 a.m.
Chairman, Research on Public Finance and Taxation, Professor, Université de Sherbrooke, As an Individual
That is already on the reporting form.
10:10 a.m.
Chairman, Research on Public Finance and Taxation, Professor, Université de Sherbrooke, As an Individual
Nobody cares.
10:10 a.m.
Chairman, Research on Public Finance and Taxation, Professor, Université de Sherbrooke, As an Individual
Personally, I have never answered “yes“ because it's true.
10:10 a.m.
Chairman, Research on Public Finance and Taxation, Professor, Université de Sherbrooke, As an Individual
It's true that I don't have any. You have to answer “yes” if you have some. But the question is not asked the other way around. That's true; you're right.
That is also what I read. I got the feeling from CRA officials that most people consider it to be optional—like just checking the box. They would answer “yes” or “no” and would live with the consequences if they said nothing.
10:15 a.m.
NDP
Thomas Mulcair NDP Outremont, QC
Now I would like you to talk more specifically about what is currently being discussed at the European level and what components of that we should be incorporating here if we want the most efficient model. Perhaps we should say more about what you see on the horizon and what the most valuable initiatives seem to be in that area.
10:15 a.m.
Chairman, Research on Public Finance and Taxation, Professor, Université de Sherbrooke, As an Individual
In my opinion, the European information exchange model is extremely effective. The reason it works is that it covers every country in the European Union, which is not the case in North America, where there are only two countries—Canada and the United States—which are not part of a customs union or other form of independent union.
Furthermore, what is interesting about the European Union's position on information exchange is that exchange is automatic. It is automatic, without there being any need for another country to request information. The government in receipt of money that appears to be connected to dubious activity automatically informs authorities in other European Union member countries.
In my opinion, as long as we have not adopted a standard like that, which is relatively binding, we will be caught—as Mr. Hannah was saying—in a maze of jurisdictional conflicts between the various privacy laws in place in every country.
In fact, I think the United States should also review the code of ethics that applies to professional advisors, like lawyers and accountants, who do planning for their clients. At this point, codes of ethics do not specifically prohibit the use of schemes of one kind or another.
10:15 a.m.
NDP
Thomas Mulcair NDP Outremont, QC
One of the models used in the United States involves requiring that a company belonging to shareholders that is listed on the stock exchange include in its financial statements the potential cost of schemes of this nature, if they were to be deemed illegal. I found that interesting.
10:15 a.m.
Chairman, Research on Public Finance and Taxation, Professor, Université de Sherbrooke, As an Individual
It is still only a draft.
10:15 a.m.
NDP
Thomas Mulcair NDP Outremont, QC
No. It is in force in the United States. Quebec has been applying it for two years now.
10:15 a.m.
Chairman, Research on Public Finance and Taxation, Professor, Université de Sherbrooke, As an Individual
You're talking about mandatory returns. In fact, I can say that I personally helped to convinced the Quebec and Canadian governments to establish a system of mandatory returns even though the corporations that now have to comply with it may not like it.
10:15 a.m.
NDP
Thomas Mulcair NDP Outremont, QC
-- that were included in generally accepted accounting principles, that could prove valuable.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. You wanted to cut me off before I could assign certain obligations to accountants.
10:15 a.m.
Liberal
10:15 a.m.
Bloc
Daniel Paillé Bloc Hochelaga, QC
I am going to pick up right where Mr. Mulcair left off, but just before I do that, I would like to put the question in French which you are asked in English, Mr. Hannah, to be sure I understand.
You mentioned at least twice that you didn't read Professor Lauzon's study. That's what you said.
10:15 a.m.
Director, Banking Operations, Canadian Bankers Association
I've read an analysis of it. I've talked to people who have read an analysis of it. I've done my own analysis of the information as it's been presented to me.
10:15 a.m.
Bloc
Daniel Paillé Bloc Hochelaga, QC
So, you didn't read Mr. Lauzon's study, and despite the resources available to you at the Canadian Bankers Association, no one had it translated for you.
10:15 a.m.
Director, Banking Operations, Canadian Bankers Association
I've said, I've read parts of it. I've read the parts that—
10:15 a.m.
Bloc
Daniel Paillé Bloc Hochelaga, QC
You are the Director of Banking Operations for the Canadian Bankers Association. What training is required for that position?
