Evidence of meeting #109 for Finance in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was process.
A video is available from Parliament.
10 a.m.
Partner, Tax, KPMG
Well, I would think that all Canadians would get tax fairness when we have an up-to-date and stable tax system, so that you know where you are with certainty. It's complex enough, but add a revolving door around it and it's—
10 a.m.
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
Would it be fair to say that at least 100,000 Canadians will be affected by this? You've said tens of thousands, but would it be fair to say that more than 100,000 Canadians would be affected by this technical tax bill not being brought into force, not being passed?
Mr. Hickey?
I saw Mr. Vineberg nod affirmatively, but the nods can't be picked up by the mikes.
10 a.m.
Partner, Tax, KPMG
Well, I can't speak to numbers. To go back to what I said, when the law stops spinning and coalesces, I think everybody will have a chance to be treated fairly.
10 a.m.
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
But you understand, of course, that I'm trying to guilt the NDP into passing the bill as quickly as possible through the most important number here, which is the number of voters you get—
10 a.m.
Partner, Tax, KPMG
I appreciate that. As you know, we have the CRA trying its best to administer the law on the basis of proposed amendments. They aren't always able to do it, but they've been trying to do that for 10 years, to strike a balance.
10 a.m.
Conservative
10 a.m.
Conservative
10 a.m.
Vice-President, Government and Regulatory Affairs, Certified General Accountants Association of Canada
I would agree with that.
10 a.m.
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
Thanks.
Do you have anything to add, Andrew? I haven't heard from you in particular in relation to this and how many Canadians would be affected.
10 a.m.
Partner, Taxation, Osler, Hoskin and Harcourt LLP
Well, certainly I think a large number of Canadians would appreciate the amendments going through, but I have no idea, to be honest with you, of how many that is.
10 a.m.
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
Can you think of any practical reason why this piece of legislation should be delayed?
10 a.m.
Vice-President, Government and Regulatory Affairs, Certified General Accountants Association of Canada
10 a.m.
Conservative
10 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
Thank you very much, Mr. Jean.
I'm going to take the next Conservative round here, if that's okay.
Mr. Kingissepp, I really appreciated your presentation because you talked about dialoguing with the Department of Finance with respect to a certain issue that needs to be addressed. Obviously, that dialogue resulted in changes that are before us in terms of this bill.
As you expressed, there's frustration about the time from discussion to getting to this point, where we actually have it in legislation. But you do say “...I would encourage all parties to enact this proposed Legislation into law at the earliest opportunity”, and then in your conclusion you reiterate “how important it is to have this amendment enacted without any further delay”.
It seems to me there's a lot of discussion that we should have done this years ago, even though, as was mentioned at our last hearing, we had nine different versions of different sections of this bill presented to Parliament at various times, and then we also had draft legislation presented with respect to various parts of this bill at certain times. So these measures have been discussed a number of times.
But I do want to thank you, Mr. Kingissepp, for raising that.
Ms. Presseault, I do want to follow up with you, because in some of your responses to Mr. Brison, I'm not sure if I was exactly clear with respect to where you are.
Parts of this legislation were introduced in the past. The bill was introduced in November. Briefings were made available to all parliamentarians at the time. One reason the government introduced it and then let it sit for a while was to allow everybody to have a good look at the bill so that when it came to committee, hopefully, the committee could pass it expeditiously.
You seem to indicate that we're not spending enough time, and yet in your presentation you were very clear that you want us to pass this very quickly.
Can you just clarify exactly what you want? Do you want this committee to study this bill longer, perhaps into the fall, and maybe pass it then, or do you want this committee to pass this bill expeditiously?
10:05 a.m.
Vice-President, Government and Regulatory Affairs, Certified General Accountants Association of Canada
If I answered yes to the question, I'd have the ire of every one of my members and would probably get fired by the end of the day.
No, absolutely, this bill needs to get passed. My concern doesn't result in the study of this bill. This bill has been studied; it's been consulted. My colleagues here, the witnesses, have also expressed that it's been extensively studied. Stakeholders have had an opportunity over the last decade to comment on the various provisions of this bill, and, yes, please, what's required is for it to be passed expeditiously.
The concern that I expressed was the idea that no one can really thoroughly scrutinize it—not that no one could really, that's not true. There should be the expectation that on a regular basis, every decade, a 1,000-page bill be presented to the committee. It's a matter of, as I mentioned, housekeeping and good administration to just bring legislation on a regular basis.
So, yes, certainly the call from our membership is to pass the bill as soon as possible, but the call going forward is for a mechanism to ensure that we don't get into the situation again.
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
Mr. Vineberg has raised some very specific issues with respect to concerns that he may have, but as well pointed out some of the good things in this bill that he believes are addressed. But he's also recommending that we expeditiously pass this bill, and then he can continue dialogue with the department.
Do you or your members have any concerns with respect to any specific provisions of this bill, Ms. Presseault?
10:05 a.m.
Vice-President, Government and Regulatory Affairs, Certified General Accountants Association of Canada
None that have come to our attention. It doesn't mean there has not been, but we've sought out the opinions of our members, and none have come to our attention, no.
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
Okay. So this bill in its entirety is acceptable to your organization and should be passed as is.
10:05 a.m.
Vice-President, Government and Regulatory Affairs, Certified General Accountants Association of Canada
Yes.
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
Okay. I appreciate that.
Mr. Vineberg, further to your issue with respect to the trust, can you perhaps identify why the bill should be passed, and then you could continue your dialogue? Why do you see that as the approach, rather than opposing the bill?
10:05 a.m.
As an Individual
The issue I raised with respect to 94 does not involve that many taxpayers.