Finance Committee on May 2nd, 2013

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Do you take this from private sector economists?

[Galen Countryman]

Yes, the Department of Finance surveys for the budget and for the fall update a number of private sector forecasts for their expectations on interest rates, gross domestic product growth, etc. We take an average of those results and use that as our baseline forecast for public debt charges, which in turn affect the statutory estimate here.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

I see.

Just switching gears a bit—

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

You have only one minute.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

One minute, okay.

We all know the penny went out of circulation recently. There are some planned savings with respect to that. How much would the savings be?

Let's hear about that first, then if there's time, we'll move on.

[Diane Lafleur, Director General, Financial Sector Branch, Department of Finance]

Thank you for that question.

Yes, the government stopped producing the penny last May 4, and on February 4 of this year we made the transition to essentially stop circulation of pennies and start withdrawing them from circulation.

As committee members may know, it was costing the government 1.6¢ to produce every penny, so there was a net loss. As a result of not producing the penny, they will be saving $11 million each year.

What we're seeing here in the estimates is that there is an up-front cost. As people bring back their pennies, they're compensated for the full value of the pennies. What we've seen is that people have been returning their pennies faster than anticipated, so we're seeing a bit of a blip on the front end. That's in part due to the success of many charitable campaigns that have been mounted in response to the penny elimination. That will tail off over the coming months and years.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Is there any salvage recovery from the pennies?

[Diane Lafleur]

Yes. The pennies, when they come back, are destroyed and melted, and there's salvage value for that.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you, Mr. Adler.

Mr. Caron, you have the floor.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I will continue along the same lines as Ms. Nash and Mr. Brison's questions.

You talked about evaluation documents and the effectiveness of advertising. Could you forward those documents and the evaluation of advertising costs to date to the committee? If you have an effectiveness or quality report for costs, we would also appreciate receiving a copy.

[Jean-Michel Catta]

Yes, absolutely.

We could certainly submit those documents to the committee.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you very much.

I am not sure if you are the right person to answer the next question.

Since 2006, there has also been a huge effort to rebrand the government's trademark, if you want to use commercial terms. It has been quite significant in terms of websites and the overall image.

Could you provide us with an estimate of how much this rebranding has cost since 2006, or any recent figures at least? We still hear about websites and various materials that are being changed, but only in terms of appearance, not substance.

[Jean-Michel Catta]

I can only talk about what the Department of Finance is doing.

Clearly, I cannot speak for all the departments. In terms of rebranding, as part of those ad campaigns and together with the Privy Council, we did indeed develop a trademark around the economic action plan.

From a communications point of view, I could tell you that there is a logic behind that. Given the climate, whether it be from the media or from outside, it is important for the government to be able to communicate clearly and effectively about the economic action plan or any other issues.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

My time is limited.

So please submit the documents on costs as well and, if you have them, the assessment documents on the effectiveness of rebranding, especially for the Department of Finance.

[Jean-Michel Catta]

Sure.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

I would also like to have information on the transition of the budgets in the economic action plan.

[Jean-Michel Catta]

Okay.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you very much.

My next questions will deal with infrastructure. I am not sure if the people around this table can answer them.

[Sherry Harrison]

I believe we have someone here from EDCF, or is this a PPP Canada question?

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

No.

In fact, it has to do with the Parliamentary Budget Officer's conclusions about the infrastructure programs and the investments that have been made.

You have no doubt become familiar with the Parliamentary Budget Officer's report on infrastructure investments. One of the conclusions in the report is that, since 2007, for most infrastructure programs, specifically Building Canada, $6 billion of the amount earmarked in the various budgets was never spent and now they have expired,

they were lapsed.

Could you confirm the Parliamentary Budget Officer's conclusion?

[Ross Ezzeddin, Director, Sectoral Policy Analysis, Economic Development and Corporate Finance, Department of Finance]

I don't have the report in front of me. It might be a better question to pose to Infrastructure Canada. I could say that is something you normally see with infrastructure programming and infrastructure funding. Very often there are delays either in reaching agreements with provinces to commit funds to specific projects or, if you're dealing with large complex projects, in the environmental assessment front-end design phase as well as in project execution.

I think a good example is the way in which funds under the 2007 Building Canada plan are being used to pay for the Ottawa light-rail project. As you're aware, the final agreements with the proponent for that project were signed this year.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

I can understand it might be normal to some extent, but we're talking about 35% of all the funds that were allocated in the budgets not actually being spent. Is that normal or is that over and above what we usually see in terms of lapsed funds?

[Ross Ezzeddin]

It's a question you would want to pose to Infrastructure Canada officials. At the beginning of the previous plan there was roughly $4 billion that belonged to the previous generation of programming, so to the Canada strategic infrastructure fund and other infrastructure funds, which had not been spent in those prior periods and wound up being spent in the period that followed.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Mr. Caron, you have 30 seconds left.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

I understand that this question might be more appropriate for Infrastructure Canada officials, but the fact remains that those investments are a major part of the economic action plan.

How can we get the government to be accountable for its promises with respect to investments that were intended to stimulate the economy but did not actually do so? We now see that the government announced the $6 billion once again. That amount was actually never invested in previous budgets.