Evidence of meeting #124 for Finance in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cbc.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON
No, this is in the past. You might have changed your mind, I don't know.
General Secretary, Canadian Union of Public Employees, Québec, Canadian Union of Public Employees
Okay.
We are essentially saying that the government—be it Conservative, Liberal or other—makes decisions on general issues, including the budgets allocated to crown corporations. Once that has been decided, regardless of whether the budget is increasing or decreasing—and that is what we have seen and are still seeing at the CBC—it is up to local managers to think and negotiate on behalf of the organization.
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON
I need to interrupt. I guess maybe I'm not getting across. My question is whether you think it's important that the government balances the budget.
General Secretary, Canadian Union of Public Employees, Québec, Canadian Union of Public Employees
That objective doesn't have to be reached in the short term or tomorrow morning. It should not be an obsession. The government should implement measures to ensure that the largest possible middle class exists under conditions that comply with the law. These are major amendments that affect the right to negotiate and the government's right to interfere in negotiations. So the government has to make global decisions.
Conservative
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON
You're saying that you don't think it's necessary too quickly. It's not something that we have to achieve immediately. The reason I'm saying that is because on your web page somebody in your group said:
Economies around the world have weakened significantly because of misguided austerity, unbalanced growth and continued uncertainty in Europe.... In Europe, Greece’s economy has gone from bad to worse with successive austerity measures imposed in exchange for EU/IMF loans and a renegotiation of debt.
Just very quickly, does CUPE believe that the problems in Greece have nothing to do with out-of-control public spending and excessive generous benefits to the public sector? Is that what I gather from that?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
That's a big question for Mr. Bolduc.
Mr. Bolduc, keep your answer very brief, please.
General Secretary, Canadian Union of Public Employees, Québec, Canadian Union of Public Employees
We think that sound management of public funds is required. However, obsessing over reaching a balanced budget at all costs must not become a daily focus of attention. We need sound management of public funds, and I can tell you that the Greek situation has nothing to do with our own.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
Okay, thanks.
Thank you, Mr. Van Kesteren.
Mr. Caron, go ahead.
NDP
Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
I would like to clarify the question Mr. Van Kesteren put to Mr. Smith.
In Quebec, no representative of the Treasury Board is a member of the management bargaining unit. So that is completely different from what is in the current bill.
I have a question for Mr. Sauvageau.
I am very pleased to be able to talk to you. You are an expert in the field of communications. I even remember talking to you when I was thinking about going to study at the Université Laval in the 1980s.
Emeritus Professor, Information and Communications Department, Université Laval, As an Individual
And you did not?
NDP
Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
Unfortunately, I did not. I chose the University of Ottawa.
You talked a lot about the arm's length principle, which is extremely important for certain crown corporations.
Since the last election, we have asked the minister in charge 22 questions about VIA Rail and Canada Post. In all 22 cases, he told us he could not answer because it was a matter of a crown corporation's internal operations, and those corporations were managed at arm's length. When he appeared before a committee, Minister James Moore also said that the CBC was at arm's length. That means that the government does not interfere in its operations, especially when it comes to human resources.
Yet we now have before us legislation that—despite everything the government may have said over the past two years—could lead to a very serious breach of the arm's length principle.
Is that what you are saying?
Emeritus Professor, Information and Communications Department, Université Laval, As an Individual
Absolutely.
The consequences are wide-ranging. The change would undermine the CBC's credibility in the eyes of the public. In addition—and this is another significant consequence—it would undermine other countries' perception of the Canadian broadcasting system.
Just last week, a colleague—who is a Canadian citizen but comes from Tunisia—was appointed president of the Tunisian counterpart to the CRTC. When he was brainstorming ideas on how to create an independent system in his country, who do you think he turned to for an ideal model? He turned to us, the Canadian embassy and the CRTC. Other countries have always seen our public media as independent. I defended that principle at UNESCO in the early 1980s. We were being touted as an example. It was said that our country was successful in avoiding, on the one hand, undue commercial interference and, on the other hand, undue political interference. With the BBC as our model, we have built a public radio and television system at arm's length.
Earlier, some of your colleagues talked about the BBC. The BBC still has a counterpart to the CBC's board of directors. I am talking about BBC Trust—a highly credible institution. That is the model Canada should use as its inspiration.
After all, the end does not always justify the means. Right? Everyone agrees in saying that sound management of public accounts is a worthy goal. However, that goal should not be reached through the use of measures that interfere with our institutions' independence and our democratic values.
NDP
Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
Mr. Sauvageau, I'd like to ask you a question about something the finance minister, Jim Flaherty, said before this committee yesterday. He was asked about a scenario in which a journalist whose reports the government is not fond of suffers consequences such as cuts to their working hours. That example may be a bit extreme. The finance minister told us this wasn't a dictatorship and there was therefore no need to worry about such things.
Without necessarily using the term dictatorship, do you think these provisions in Bill C-60 could have what is known as a chilling effect on journalists who cover government activities, for instance? Could the government curb their coverage by telling them to back off?
Emeritus Professor, Information and Communications Department, Université Laval, As an Individual
As you said, I don't think this is reminiscent of a dictatorship; let's not get too carried away. However, as you know, more and more journalists are experiencing less job security at the CBC. The chilling effect you referred to can certainly have an impact on journalists who are in those vulnerable positions. I'm not saying that it will happen, but we could see contract workers practising self-censorship. Their contracts are renewed periodically. They don't enjoy the same level of job security that unionized journalists do. And the bill clearly states that the Treasury Board can make rules that apply to non-unionized employees as well.
NDP
Emeritus Professor, Information and Communications Department, Université Laval, As an Individual
Thank you.
Conservative
Mark Adler Conservative York Centre, ON
Madame Bergeron, I have to, first of all, compliment you on your choice of service dog, a golden retriever. We have two golden retrievers at home and they're fabulous dogs. Congratulations on your choice.
I would like to ask you a question. We as a committee, a few months ago, undertook a study on charitable giving, charitable donations. One of the findings of our analysis was that we needed to develop more of a culture of giving in this country. In response to that, in economic action plan 2013, the Minister of Finance proposed to create a first-time donor's super credit. How important is that initiative for organizations like the CNIB?
National Director, Government Relations and Advocacy, Canadian National Institute for the Blind
I have to admit that the fund development area within the CNIB is not my area, but from the perspective of someone who has an adult child living in my home who is a first-time donor, I think it's very significant.
The more money that gets transferred into charitable organizations from the public, the more ability we have to provide the enhanced services and the value-added services that we need to provide over and above the rights that Canadians have through the public service for rehabilitation services, library services, and employment services.
I think it's very significant. Anything that can help us to do the work that we do in the community, which is focused on those value-adds is very important.
Conservative
Mark Adler Conservative York Centre, ON
Ms. Dezell and Mr. Leclerc, I want to ask you both the same question and we could start with you, Ms. Dezell.
We took the gas tax fund and number one, we made it permanent, and second, we indexed it. That is having the effect of, number one, laying the foundation for a competitive economy through the development of our cities, but second and more important, it creates permanent and sustainable funding for our cities, which is so desperately needed right now.
Could you comment on how important that initiative was for our government to undertake and how important that is for your case cities specifically?
Manager, Gas Tax Implementation, Association of Municipalities of Ontario
My context is only within the province of Ontario where we deliver the program. It has been extremely critical to us. In Ontario we only have one program for infrastructure that exists on a permanent basis and that is Canada's gas tax fund.
Conservative
Vice-President, Strategic Development, Canadian Urban Transit Association
Yes. It's an extremely important measure. As we mentioned, predictability and stability are two criteria that are really important for planning and transit projects as well.
When you look at the national picture in Canada since 2006, it's over $2 billion that went to public transit from the gas tax fund. What it means concretely is that, for instance, in Edmonton the gas tax fund is going directly to the extension of its south LRT, which means better and more service for the population.
It's also a benefit for smaller communities, such as Whitehorse, for instance, which has a 100% fully accessible bus fleet. That was made possible through the support from the gas tax fund. It's extremely important for that sector.
