Finance Committee on Oct. 6th, 2011

[Pierre Delestrade]

In terms of the other program, the one like Mercury Global, we use commercial satellites. We have a constellation of satellites that we call Skynet. Telesat is a supplier of satellites that we use as well.

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you.

We'll go to Mr. Jean, please.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the witnesses for appearing today.

I just want to say for the record, I will be supporting Russ Hiebert's bill on the union's motion. I represent more union members than anybody else in the country, and I can assure you that the union members—my voters—tell me clearly that they want the unions to be accountable. I will be supporting that.

As well, I want to indicate, as my associate, Mr. Van Kesteren, said, that Jeff Watson, who I worked with for five years on the transport committee, was very instrumental in much of the infrastructure in this area, including always standing up for auto workers, always standing up for the bridge construction and making sure that we could move our goods back and forth to Detroit. And I know that he wishes he could be here today, but certainly he is a very hard-working MP.

I would like to ask you, Monsieur, in relation to your parent company, which of course is Airbus, and you're located primarily in Munich and Paris.... Congratulations, first of all, on the record number of deliveries in 2009, I think 498 deliveries. So your company is doing extremely well. But isn't it the case that just this past June, the World Trade Organization ruled that Airbus had actually benefited from improper subsidies in the form of loans from European governments at below-market rates?

[Pierre Delestrade]

It's a long story. I think because we are fighting against Boeing--

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

I understand--

[Pierre Delestrade]

--for a long time--

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

But isn't that the case, though, that the WTO did do that?

[Pierre Delestrade]

Yes.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Okay. That was my only question. Thank you very much for that.

Also we only have limited time, so I apologize for that.

I wanted to talk a bit about pensions. I know you are an expert on pensions—and I recognize what's happening in the OECD in particular—but I wanted to talk a little bit about what's happening in the public sector versus the private sector and the self-employed. For instance, in 1976-79, the average age was 64 for retirement in the public sector. In 2000-05, that moved down five years to 59, which is quite disturbing, because of course they stop paying in tax and instead take it out. The age for self-employed has remained 66 years as an average retirement since that time.

I also want to ask you questions generally about the KiwiSaver program in New Zealand, which has obviously just come into play, and also with the U.K. and their implementation expanding the private pension plans in 2012. I think that's very, very important. I agree 100% with your recommendations for this government. I agree with you 100% about CPP and not including it on more of a volunteer basis. But I'd like to talk a little bit about that, and also I am very interested in what Quebec's second recommendation is relating to a tax credit for those who do not retire early. So if you don't retire early, you actually get a tax credit.

Could you give me a few of your thoughts on that?

[William Tufts]

Yes. I wasn't prepared to talk to the PRPP today, but I go out and speak to a lot of industry organizations about it. I think everybody is aware of the retirement security problems in Canada. I think one of the important things is the changing face of Canada's demographic numbers. Today in Canada there are going to be a thousand people turn age 65. That's going to happen every day this year. That's going to happen every day until the year 2029. I don't think we have any idea today how dramatically the face of Canada is going to be changed.

In terms of the world dynamics of retirement, I think more and more countries are realizing that the promises that were made on early retirement are not sustainable, and that dramatic changes have to be made. This week Ireland, for example, introduced a retirement at age 68.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

I'm sorry to interrupt, but that chairman cuts me off all the time.

I'm interested in your recommendations particularly for us and some of the best practices around the world and what you would recommend we should follow through with.

[William Tufts]

Yes, the Kiwi program is an example. It's a good example. They have introduced a $1,000 tax credit for anybody signing up to the program. I think they've had pretty good enrolment in it. Another feature of the Kiwi program was what they called an opt-out, so that when you become an employer with a company, you sign up your TD1 forms and all the other employment forms, and included with that is the enrolment into the government program. You do have the option of opting out of it.

The other thing that's happening in the Kiwi, which is similar to the NEST program happening in the U.K., is that there are mandatory employer contributions. I know that's going to cause some concern with the independent CFIB and the chamber as well. We don't want to see additional payroll taxes put on--

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Absolutely not.

[William Tufts]

--but at the same time, there's the huge problem that Canadians are not prepared for. The average Canadian at age 65 only has only $60,000--

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

In relation to the 2012 implementation by the European Union or the U.K. in particular, what do you recommend would be a good fit for our model?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Please give a very brief response.

[William Tufts]

Could I get back to you on that? I'd be happy to provide you with some written information on that.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

I'd appreciate receiving that as well as information on KiwiSaver and the implementation of that as well.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you.

I just want to point out to everyone here that I only cut off members who are verbose.

For the final round, Ms. Glover, go ahead, please.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to all the witnesses for joining us today. Let me start by asking Mr. Delestrade a question first. I have only five minutes so I am going to be quick.

On pages 1 and 4 of your brief, we read: “Canada's past experience with alternate service delivery and P3 programs has proven to be both successful and cost- effective.“

Some parties, the Liberal Party in particular, are asking for P3 programs to be eliminated completely. How do you see that?

[Pierre Delestrade]

I think the two things are slightly different. PPPs are

private-public partnership.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Exactly. We are talking about PPPs.

[Pierre Delestrade]

If you mean a PPP, I do not see this as one. I was referring to ASDs.

In terms of PPPs…

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Pages 1 and 4 make specific reference to PPPs. I have read your document. What would be the consequences for you if they were eliminated?