Finance Committee on Oct. 19th, 2011

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

I recall, prior to this government--and they love it when we start talking about “prior to this government”--there were screams for research and development money then, and those were better times than we have now. So my point is that we have to find the source. We have to find that balance between the genuine needs, which we hear about from everybody who is before us today, and the sources of income.

[Gilles Patry]

It is a very challenging and difficult situation you're in. Trying to, obviously, balance the budget in a timely manner, trying to preserve the momentum we have in terms of research and development, creating knowledge that will benefit future generations, and dealing with all of the other trade-offs you have to deal with: I do not envy you your role. And I'm sure my colleagues also appreciate the importance of what you're doing.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you, Mr. Marston.

We'll go to Mr. Adler, please.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

And thank you to all the witnesses for being here today.

My first question is to Mr. Patry. It's good to see you again.

I think we can all agree that for the jobs of the future we're going to have to use our muscles, but not what we traditionally think of as muscles. Going forward, we're going to have to use the muscles between our ears.

As you know, our government has been fairly active in promoting innovation and technology, and in funding it. We've made significant investments in all of our budgets. What would be your assessment of our government's initiative so far?

[Gilles Patry]

Let me start, and then I'll pass it on to my colleagues Suzanne and Alain.

I mentioned in my notes several initiatives that have been launched, which are absolutely very innovative and potentially transformative in the long run. It's early in the life of those programs, but the Centres of Excellence for Commercialization and Research, launched in 2007 or 2008, and the business-led Networks of Centres of Excellence of Canada are two examples that are now bringing researchers and academics closer to the private sector. I think there is tremendous potential in these types of initiatives.

But these are not the only initiatives. Thirty percent of NSERC's funding and a lot of CIHR's funding goes to fostering that partnership.

I'll start with Alain and then maybe Suzanne.

[Dr. Suzanne Fortier]

I'll add one word at the end.

[Dr. Alain Beaudet, President, Canadian Institutes of Health Research]

Thank you, Gilles.

To me there are two things that this government has done that have been particularly important. One, it has made sustained yearly increases in investment in R and D--and the word “sustained” here is extremely important, because you're talking about a community that's extraordinarily mobile. Star researchers can go anywhere in the world. They also have antennas, and the sustainability and the regular increases we've seen year after year by this government in science and technology have had a tremendous psychological impact in attracting and retaining talent in this country in research and development.

Two, it has created a number of programs, but particularly programs that are specifically geared to attract talent from outside Canada. And because, at the same time, you have this sustained investment in R and D, the international reputation of Canada is now that this is a country that believes in science and systematically invests in science. So this is a country they're interested in coming to. And that's why the other programs that the government has created to attract people have been so successful.

[Dr. Suzanne Fortier]

That's the point I wanted to make.

[Carmen Charette, Executive Vice-President, Corporate Affairs Secretariat, Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council of Canada]

I just want to add that from a social sciences and humanities perspective, in the last budget you recognized the importance of those fields in building understanding about people and organizations in society. We more and more recognize that innovation is not just about technology; it is about good business practices. The government provided us money for management, business, and finance research, so it recognizes the fact that innovation is about culture, about good business practices.

We've seen a lot more of our community engaging in projects that deal with how to have successful businesses in a competitive international environment, which we are now in. With regard to the whole area of e-commerce, when you think that 75% of our economy right now is in the service industry, that shows how our society is evolving and how the jobs of the future will be changing.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

You have about 40 seconds.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

In the Jenkins report that was just released, he recommends a number of areas where it could be improved. What do you think of that?

[Gilles Patry]

I think he's tackling a very serious issue. It's something we have all been waiting for. The report is very ambitious. I think everybody agrees that there are some transformative recommendations in that report. The committee has done an outstanding piece of work in listening to all of the stakeholders and trying to identify potential solutions.

It's now in your hands to deliver on these recommendations, many of which are transformative in many ways. Some of them are probably easier to implement and might have what we refer to as the low-hanging fruit. Those are probably the ones you will want to focus on. I have the benefit of not being a politician.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you. That was a nice way of returning the serve.

[Gilles Patry]

I've not learned as well as you have.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you.

Mr. Giguère, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Alain Giguère, NDP, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank all the witnesses for coming.

My first question is for the Calgary Chamber of Commerce representative.

During the latest consultations, many private sector representatives had three requests when it came to R & D credits. Among other things, they asked that expenditures be immediately refundable and not to have credits applicable to future profits. They asked that there no longer be any penalties on eligible expenses when they receive provincial or municipal funding. Finally, they asked us to resolve certain issues in terms of accessibility.

Are you in favour of those requests?

[Ben Brunnen]

Could you clarify the last point on access?

[Alain Giguère, NDP, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Regarding accessibility, eligibility criteria for obtaining those credits are becoming increasingly strict.

[Ben Brunnen]

Certainly these suggestions are in alignment with the position of the Chamber of Commerce. We definitely heard from our colleagues and our membership about the challenges regarding consistency in the application of the procedures, rules, etc.

[Alain Giguère, NDP, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Pardon me, but I only have five minutes.

Do you agree with those requests submitted by other private sector representatives, yes or no?

[Ben Brunnen]

Conceptually they seem sound. I would reserve comment to learn a little more about what they're suggesting.

[Alain Giguère, NDP, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

I don't have enough time to discuss it further. I'm sorry. I thank you nonetheless for your answer.

My next question is for the representatives of the Canadian Federation of Nurses Unions. You're basically asking for a pilot fund in order to protect human capital.

I will give you a bit of time to explain to us how that pilot project will help preserve human capital and prevent people from leaving the profession.

[Pauline Worsfold]

We received some funding that I referred to around the research-to-action project. It was $4.5 million for two years and funded ten projects. So we would use something similar to that.

One of the projects that was very successful was an 80-20 project, where the nurse spent 80% of her or his time at the bedside delivering care, and 20% doing professional development or mentorship. They found that reduced absenteeism and turnover on the unit where it was implemented, and gave better job satisfaction to the nurse. It also increased the patients' satisfaction. So we would be looking at replicating that one unit pilot project in different provinces across the country.

[Alain Giguère, NDP, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Thank you very much.

My next question is for Marie-France Kenny.

Basically, Radio-Canada's services are some of the most significant provided to francophones outside of Quebec, and the budget for those services often comes under fire.

Could you provide us with more details on that, please?

[Marie-France Kenny]

For francophone and Acadian communities and for myself living in Saskatchewan, Radio-Canada is the only source of regional news in French. The same thing applies to my Acadian friends, those who live in British Columbia and even those living in Edmonton or Calgary.

As for regional news in French, the national evening news report is sometimes a source of frustration for francophone and Acadian communities tuning in. In fact, a portion of the regional news report covers national and international news. I must admit that, as a Franco-Saskatchewanian, I find it a bit tiresome to hear about the Champlain Bridge, the Mercier Bridge and the construction crisis these days. Yesterday evening, among the topics covered on the national news was the construction crisis. Only at the very end did they talk about the Official Languages Commissioner's report, although it affects the whole country.

We would like to have a national news report, which would not only cover Quebec, but all of Canada. As for the regional news report, it is of the utmost importance that we continue having access to Radio-Canada's services.