Finance Committee on Oct. 31st, 2011

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

I appreciate that answer.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

You have 30 seconds.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

I'm okay.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you, Mr. Adler.

We'll go to Mr. Jean, please.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, witnesses, for coming forward.

I feel for the two mayors here because of the highway of death in northern Alberta, Highway 63, that takes a lot of people's lives. It has certainly caused issues with my own family, because many of the people who died were long-term residents of the area, and some were from other constituencies. I know there was a month last year when you lost about 19 people in that one-mile or two-mile stretch. It's horrendous, for certain.

It is horrible, and we've been waiting since 2006 to see the highway twinned from Fort McMurray to about 200 kilometres south. It's still not finished. We've been waiting and waiting, but it's very difficult to be patient in that kind of circumstance.

I understand where you're going. I notice that there has been a significant amount of investment by the federal government in that area of the Trans-Canada, particularly in Banff and Golden. I think Golden invested $570,000 toward some improvements.

For the most part, money is scarce in Canada, especially with the infrastructure deficit we've had to wrestle with from the Liberals from the 1990s. Have you looked at or proposed any other alternatives to the provincial government that is in control of transport? Have you looked at any other alternatives besides money being transferred from the federal government to the provincial government and then to the infrastructure, such as tolls or other avenues like that to speed up the process?

[David Raven]

They took the tolls off the Coquihalla Highway only four years ago, and it had paid for itself. The provincial government didn't ask my opinion at that time either. Quite frankly, that would have helped pay for a lot of that infrastructure. There may be other alternatives, but I'd remind you that this is the Trans-Canada Highway. This is a gateway to the Asian markets. It's not a secondary highway somewhere else. This is where Canadians travel back and forth across the country. Unfortunately, we're picking them up off the side of the highway too often.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

I know. Part of the national highway system is Highway 63, with 7% of the GDP of the country. I know what you mean. It's the economic hub of the country. I was in Golden this summer on a motorcycle ride, so I can assure you that I used it. I was born in Kelowna, or Westbank, so I know that area.

I am very interested in the particular issue of the removal of the toll, because I believe it shouldn't be a political movement. It should be more an issue of reality. Right now we're in a reality situation and we have to deal with it, so I certainly appreciate that answer.

I have some other questions, and one in particular to the Canadian Boreal Initiative. I see that those are serious issues in relation to what FPAC and other organizations have done. When Avrim Lazar came to this committee some time ago he said that the Conservative government took a sunset industry and made it, through investments and initiatives, one of the strongest and healthiest in the world, referring to the forestry industry. Would you agree with that?

[Mary Granskou]

We have worked very closely with FPAC and Avrim Lazar, so I absolutely agree. But I would also add that the forest sector has taken it upon themselves to reinvent the way they do business. That goes from being certified to deciding proactively to reach an agreement with environmental organizations that in the past would be sitting on the opposite side of the table. So I think the credit is within the industry as well, if that's helpful.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

It is helpful. I'm hopeful that the next step will be the oil sands industry sitting down with environmental groups and others to do the same sort of thing. I think right now the oil sands industry in northern Alberta uses approximately 0.1% of the boreal forest for mining, which they're slowly phasing out. That's great news, and I hope we can initiate that sort of thing with that industry. Thank you for your answers.

Do you have something else to say?

[Mary Granskou]

I would just add that within the oil sands region we've been deeply engaged in and strongly promote solutions that involve first nations governments, environmental institutions, and industry. There are some very creative ideas out there that could be implemented.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

And I applaud those. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you, Mr. Jean.

We'll go to Mr. Marston, please.

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

To our two mayors, you've travelled a long way to come here, but you've travelled with a very important cause. I looked at page three of your brief and the list of the potential loss. I worked for the railway for nine years as a signal maintenance guy, and I've been out on the site of four fatalities. It leaves a mark.

We normally talk here about the macro level of the investment we're calling on the government to invest, but I want to tell you that I have no problem whatsoever supporting you. I'm not really asking you a question, but it did bring back a couple of memories when I was reading this.

To our friends at Engineers Without Borders, in listening to what you had to say, I'd like to know who else is supporting this cause. Who are your allies in this case?

[James Haga]

First and foremost, as an organization we've been looking at this issue closely for about a year and a half. As I said, we have a strong network of people across the country who are involved in what we are doing, in the professional engineering community as well as in universities across the country. I have over 30 university student chapters. Through that network we've spoken with over 20,000 Canadians and collected over 20,000 signatures from Canadians from St. John's to Vancouver, in support of this initiative. So there's that side of it.

In addition, there are other organizations and people who have gotten behind the idea, who believe it is a strong and valuable idea for Canada to look at. First, I would mention Oxfam Canada. Peace Dividend Trust is another organization, which recently won the G-20 SME Finance Challenge. It's a really great, innovative organization. There's War Child Canada. Dr. Samantha Nutt is the founder and executive director of War Child. There's the McLeod Group, which is a foreign policy group comprised of a group of Canada's most senior development experts.

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

That's great. It gives us a sense of the balance behind what you've been doing, and I'm sure our friends across the way are interested in accountability. We hear about that fairly regularly from them.

Mr. Dubeau, a couple of years ago the CBC was talking to us about bringing community-based radio to Hamilton so we're somewhat out of the shadow of Toronto. It would allow us to celebrate our diversity in our community. In that light, I'm wondering if you're aware of any Radio-Canada initiatives in Quebec or northern Ontario that would be in support of sustaining and maintaining the French language.

[Éric Dubeau]

It's an interesting question, inasmuch as our case for Radio-Canada and maintaining its funding in our brief is essentially based on the notion of access and the essential nature of access for Franco-Canadian communities. When I say “access”, first of all, intuitively we think of hearing French on the radio, which is a difficult thing to do in northern Alberta or in B.C., etc. But there's another layer of access more akin to what you're bringing up, which is the notion of a local radio station in Sudbury or Moncton that has an economic impact and a footprint in the community that goes well beyond what's heard on the radio. It goes into jobs that are created at the local level and to people who are leaders in their cultural community.

I believe there are 15 stations in francophone communities across the country, and each of them has a particularly deep tie with the community, at a local level. So I'd say very much so.

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

We had a person from ACTRA here today, again talking about accessing the Internet and the use of web-based materials.

I presume that somewhere along the way there'd be room for a CBC broadcast on the web, which would allow for that transfer of signal you're talking about where it's difficult to get it locally.

[Éric Dubeau]

One of the great steps forward, through Radio-Canada, the French CBC, has been multi-platform integration over the past couple of years. These days, production that is based outside of Quebec, initiated by francophone producers from Manitoba, for example, can be seen time and time again in local communities. They aren't necessarily going to tune into the network time and time again, but they will download content or integrate it into identity construction within classrooms or that kind of activity.

That's something we're hoping Radio-Canada will continue to pursue into the future.

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Hoang Mai]

Ms. McLeod.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

As the neighbour from Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, I guess it's appropriate that I start with questions and thank both mayors for joining us here in Toronto.

Certainly one of my priorities--another area, a very challenging highway--was the Hoffman's Bluff Highway. Of course we're very pleased that we are now going from Monte Creek through to Chase.

Is it fair to say that Sicamous to Golden is the last stretch that's not four-lane and not properly taken care of through British Columbia?

[David Raven]

You're correct. The piece to the east of Kamloops you're talking about, with the bluff, was under contract and then was dropped for various reasons, archeological being primary.

There are two sections that have been done west of Sicamous. There are very few pieces there to connect. There has been nothing done between Sicamous...other than the one four-lane stretch that is about three kilometres long. There is one bridge being constructed now to a four-lane standard, one bridge in that whole section where most of the fatalities have occurred.

There is very little other than a bit of maintenance east of Revelstoke right through to the Rogers Pass, to Donald, and at Donald now they're replacing the Columbia River bridge with a four-lane bridge. So there's no question, it has started.

The Donald bridge, of course, was notorious. A semi-truck would go off that thing every week.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Mr. Mai likes to talk about the Champlain Bridge, so one of these days I'd like to take him on a snowy night for a drive along the Trans-Canada, because it truly is a bit of an intimidating stretch of highway.

[David Raven]

I can tell you that I drove my daughter and my granddaughter back from Calgary last year, in August, and I actually pulled off the road. I wouldn't do it at night with the semis on the road at night.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

The other part--and Mr. Jean alluded to it--is we partner with the province normally, and really it's the province's priorities that tend to move things forward. So I would assume you're having great conversations with the province at this time in terms of where this stretch of highway is going.