Finance Committee on Oct. 31st, 2011

[Susan Eng]

Well, I'll qualify that. I would support it, but let me explain the qualifications.

First of all, on the voluntariness, research indicates that if you make it mandatory enrolment with an opt-out, which nets out as voluntary, you have net greater uptake. In fact the insurance industry, which has wanted to administer the PRPPs, is itself asking for mandatory enrolment with opt-out.

Secondly, in terms of the fee issue, the CPP does have lower fees. However, part of the reason is that it has no obligation to make a profit to give to shareholders. Consequently, without regulating that their fees be kept at a certain level, we have the result of decent fees, so we're calling for regulation when you hand this over to the private industry.

Finally, when we're talking about the type of benefits you could have, it does not have to be defined contribution. There is an opportunity to look at it as a target benefit.

When you're done with doing all that, you pretty much have a second-tiered CPP.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Thank you.

The industry organizations often speak to us about their support for PRPP, but they're not really supportive of opening up access to the CPP on a broader basis. Another advantage and reason why the CPP fee structure is so low is that the fund itself is so large. They're very efficient, and we appreciate that.

The future of health care is not going to be the hospital. It's going to be, increasingly, the home. I agree with measures to help in that regard, but I have one last question for the Canadian Association of Community Living.

In the L'Arche communities that I've become familiar with, they do an incredible job in Canada to help Canadian families and make a difference in communities. Should we be increasing support for L'Arche communities across Canada?

[Michael Bach]

I think we have to focus our support on individuals and families to enable them to make choices about where they want to live and the communities they want to live in.

Without some community capacity to create disability-related supports, opportunities in the community, you need some supply-side investment. We recognize that this affects primarily the provincial level. We believe that if the federal government provided income transfers to lower-income people, especially those with severe disabilities, similar to those they have for seniors and children in poverty, over a billion dollars would be released at the provincial level to invest in precisely these kinds of supports. That's the proposal that we're putting on the table.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you.

I'm going to recommend that a future member ask Mr. Bach the question first, because I suspect there's more to say. I'll just make that recommendation to my colleagues.

I'll go now to Mr. Jean.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Thank you, witnesses, for attending today.

I want to start with the marine industry and Ms. Anghel. I have two jet boats. I come from Fort McMurray, one of the most beautiful places in the world to boat. I have to say I enjoy boating, and this year I got two whole hours in because of this job, so it wasn't that much fun. Yes, it was about two hours.

It was interesting what you said about the North American supply chain. I found out about that in another role I had in a previous government. In relation to the supply trend for almost all types of industries—cars, trucks, boats—there's an inter-connection. So eliminating trade barriers, specifically at the border, is what your industry is interested in. Would that be fair?

[Sara Anghel]

That's fair. It's a valid point. Things go across the border several times before they actually make it to the consumer. The more we can do to harmonize across the border the better. We want to harmonize regulatory requirements and work towards this with our U.S. partners. We'd like to stress that as much as possible.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Most of my questions are in relation to the demographics of what's happening to the world. There is no question that we in Canada are leaders, especially this government. Consider some of the recent things we've announced for seniors, as well as health care with our consistent 6% increase. But it's not sustainable with the demographics of the world and what's taking place. I read a lot of investment magazines that cite growth trends. I think the answer to what's going on in the world with demographics, at least with seniors, is the private industry.

I'm wondering if I could hear, from whoever wants to answer, the five leading areas of growth for seniors. I don't see it as an answer for government to come in with money and regulations and tax credits; I see it as an opportunity for private industry to come in and offer creative incentives for business.

[Susan Eng]

You're absolutely right. The population worldwide is aging, as is Canada's population, and that provides opportunities. There are challenges, but there are also major opportunities. For example, people will be able to keep working. Many people do not see age 60 or 65 as the end of their careers, and many people are carrying on in their lives and contributing. That means we have to get rid of some discriminatory laws, put in health plans that allow them to keep working, and recognize that people have caregiving responsibilities.

We also recognize that older Canadians are getting into debt. There is a need for some rational way of dealing with how they are saving. There was a question in the previous session about the national securities regulator. We are fully supportive of such a regulator, not necessarily to help IPOs get out, but rather because they have also introduced some effective enforcement agencies.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

I'm sorry, I have very little time. I noticed that one of the witnesses wants to answer the question, and any other input would be welcome in point form, if you don't mind. Thank you.

[Nadine Henningsen]

The private sector, with the support of the government, could make a huge advancement in technology—for home care, health care, and caregiving. All these areas could be helped by looking at innovative ways to use technology. The private sector comes up with some great concepts or ideas. But how do we get that technology into our water supply or our food chain? How do we get that into the way we deliver health care and home care?

I could give you hundreds of examples of really neat remote monitoring systems, but somehow there's some barrier here in Canada to actually getting that into the food chain of our health care.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

If you were going to recommend to an investor who wants to invest in the fastest-growing market, which is obviously seniors, are there any other opportunities that you see out there?

I think the reality is that private industry has to get involved. If it does not, we will have a major catastrophe on our hands.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

A brief response from someone, please.

[Susan Eng]

There are a lot of opportunities. Retirement homes can certainly be marketing to seniors much more than in the past. All of these opportunities are there. It is a major opportunity.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

We'll go to Mr. Marston, please.

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to say to Ms. Eng, this is different, because the last time I met you, you were asking me questions in a debate. So now it's my turn.

The first question I have for you might have a simple yes or no answer. There has been a document that has been labelled secret that has been released. It's a document entitled “Proposed PRPP Framework--Detailed Elaboration of Key Elements”, which the government had supplied to insurance companies, mutual funds, public sectors, and even the bar association. You came in today with a commentary on the PRPPs. Have you had a chance to see that document?

[Susan Eng]

No, I'm not really sure I know what you're talking about.

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Okay. Well, people will eventually. I was talking to Mr. Menzies about it this morning.

CARP has done a fairly comprehensive study of seniors and retirements. Of the NDP retirement security programs that you're aware of, which initiatives would you support, and why do you think the government should be implementing them now?

[Susan Eng]

Since you asked, we made a point of looking at all the election platforms of all the parties, and we kept a copy so that we can follow up with each of the parties. In terms of a number of issues, we can see that your party focused, as all the parties did during this election, on issues that resonate with older Canadians. On pension reform, I think that many of our proposals line up. We do also share some concern with simply doubling the CPP, but I would hasten to add that even if we actually did that, the additional amounts that people would have to pay in CPP contributions are in the hundreds of dollars rather than the thousands that people are so worried about.

We certainly encourage the government and this committee to look more fully at the full range of support for family caregivers. On the expansion of compassionate care, I know that you were there with the refundable portion of the tax credit. That is important to us. Adapting homes for seniors' independence is something the Ontario government has come up with as well, and also providing some forgivable loans. Those are all policies that are extremely important in the sector, and we certainly encourage the whole committee to look at those as options.

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Thank you.

Ms. McAlister and Ms. Henningsen, in our platform last time we were proposing that the government provide long-term-care beds for people. We hear repeatedly of the cost to our health care system. Something like 20% of people live in poverty, and a lot of those folks are seniors. Over two summers, I had 40 community meetings with seniors, and person after person was trying to live on $1,140 a month. I actually had women tell me they ate cat food in order to get protein, which is sad.

Now, the government did make a move, and we have to give recognition to the fact that they gave $50 a month to seniors, but our belief is it should be much more. The poverty level is $22,000 a year, and what they're getting now is about $15,200 to $15,400. Would you support an increase to that level?

[Marg McAlister]

Are you asking about an increase in long-term-care beds?

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

No. Guaranteed income supplement had been increased $50 a month--

[Marg McAlister]

Right.

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

--and we're saying they had to go a lot further than that, particularly for 300,000 people who, as Ms. Eng has indicated, are mostly women.

[Susan Eng]

Yes, we would certainly support an increase.