Finance Committee on Dec. 1st, 2011

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

I have a point or order, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Mr. Regan.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

I've been before our committee under the estimates as a minister, and the members at that time did not stick to what was in the supplementary estimates. I've always experienced the questioning as very broad. It's one of the few opportunities for parliamentarians to question officials from the department. Of course, it's nice when you can have a minister here answering questions and being held accountable. But it's rare to have that, or even to have officials. Members ought to have the opportunity to ask a broad array of questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Ms. Glover, do you have a point of order?

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to welcome Mr. Regan to this committee. It's the first time he's been here in the new session, and perhaps he doesn't realize that this committee functions very well following the rules. Although he may have been a minister, it's evident that breaking the rules is not tolerated by Canadians. This is demonstrated by the fact that the Liberal Party now has only 34 seats. We intend to follow the rules here in this committee. I'd suggest that Mr. Regan follow them as well. We're going to stick to supplementary estimates (B). If he'd like to appear when the minister is here, he's more than welcome to do so.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you, Ms. Glover.

I have Mr. Julian, and then Mr. Giguère on the same point of order.

Mr. Julian.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Mr. Chair, you have long experience. You're well aware that supplements mean that you talk about the supplementary estimates as well as the main estimates. That's something that is normal. I've been here for seven years, and Mr. Regan is absolutely right. I hope you don't penalize him on his time, because I don't think the original point of order was valid.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

No, the time will not be penalized, but I will be ruling on it afterwards.

Monsieur Giguère.

[Alain Giguère, NDP, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

You answered the question, Mr. Chair.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

It is correct that we allow a fair amount of leeway in questioning. But, Mr. Regan, that issue, which is important to me as well, as I have a lot of interest in it, is not under the administration of CRA whatsoever. So I don't see what the officials could add on that, other than to say exactly what I've just said.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

This is not under the administration of CRA.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Can I just finish my statement, Mr. Regan?

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

This is under the administration of the IRS, so I suggest that the issue is beyond the gamut of the officials here today.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

I encourage you to try to stick somewhat to the supplementary estimates.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

I will do that, Mr. Chairman. But to say that the Government of Canada doesn't have any responsibility to act and defend these Canadian citizens who are being affected by this is appalling, if you'll forgive me for saying so.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

In my ruling I didn't say that, Mr. Regan. This committee operates well because the chair seeks to apply the rules as they are.

We are here to discuss supplementary estimates (B). That is what is on the orders of the day. The issue you raise is not mentioned here or in the supplementary estimates. I mentioned to you that this issue is important to me as well, and I have raised it in other forums.

I'm suggesting that you stick to supplementary estimates (B), or something that could be within the gamut of supplementary estimates or estimates as a whole. I did not say that the Government of Canada does not have a responsibility; I said that the CRA does not have responsibility for that issue. The IRS has responsibility for that issue.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

I guess I was getting at my concern about the idea this is an American government problem and not our problem. When you say it's the IRS--

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

I did not say that at all.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

When you say it's the IRS and not a Canadian agency, that's my interpretation.

I'll go to the questions I have on the supplementary estimates (B).

I don't need to be lectured by--

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Shame on you, Mr. Regan.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Now, let me talk about the following.

Mr. Mai asked questions about the role of auditors, and about the details concerning cuts and the impact they will have. How is it that you have no idea, after all this time, after the government announced cuts in the agencies and departments? How is it that you're unable to tell us how many auditor positions will be eliminated?

[Filipe Dinis]

I indicated in my earlier response that there are no planned cuts from the audit perspective at this time.

I can tell the committee that we have approximately 9,000 auditors in the agency. That level has been pretty much consistent. The budget for the audit function has remained steady over the years, so I can confirm that is the base of the audit community in the agency. We have not applied any specific cuts to the auditors' function at this time.