It was in 2007.
Evidence of meeting #38 for Finance in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was charity.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #38 for Finance in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was charity.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:10 p.m.
Director General, Education, Labour and Income Statistics Branch, Statistics Canada
It was in 2007.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
4:10 p.m.
Director General, Education, Labour and Income Statistics Branch, Statistics Canada
Absolutely.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Hoang Mai NDP Brossard—La Prairie, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Keenan, let me go back to what Mr. Van Kesteren was saying about the 10% for political activities.
You mentioned that they have to be non-partisan. Who determines what is partisan and what is non-partisan? Is it the Department of Finance or the CRA?
4:10 p.m.
Director, Personal Income Tax Division, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance
I am going to let Ms. Hawara answer that question.
4:10 p.m.
Director General, Charities Directorate, Legislative Policy and Regulatory Affairs Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
The CRA deals with that.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Hoang Mai NDP Brossard—La Prairie, QC
Very well. I am going to continue the dialogue with you.
At the moment, we are seeing a number of charities lose their charitable registration—and, as a result, their funding—because they are involved in political activities.
Some are quite concerned about the government’s potential interference in this, because the charities sometimes criticize what the government does. Although they comply with all the rules, including the 10% rule, they lose their funding.
We have asked some charities to speak out publicly, but they are afraid of potential government reprisal.
Does the government give you any instructions on which charities you have to investigate or on the political activities of some organizations?
4:10 p.m.
Director General, Charities Directorate, Legislative Policy and Regulatory Affairs Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
We have clear instructions. They are listed and available on our website.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Hoang Mai NDP Brossard—La Prairie, QC
Yes, it says what political action is. I have seen that on your website.
Do you receive instructions on which charities you have to investigate?
4:10 p.m.
Director General, Charities Directorate, Legislative Policy and Regulatory Affairs Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
No, we don’t receive instructions like that.
The audit plan is developed each year by the charities directorate. We then have the opportunity to review the complaints we receive from the public.
So we are developing a balanced program with several components, including high-risk files, meaning abusive tax shelters and false receipts. We are also able to review the complaints we receive, but this all falls under the charities directorate.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Hoang Mai NDP Brossard—La Prairie, QC
Okay. I would like to continue discussing this.
You have briefly talked about receipt-related fraud. We know that there have been a lot of cases lately where the value of some donations was higher... You know what I mean.
How have you used your staff and policies to address cases of fraud committed by charities?
4:15 p.m.
Director General, Charities Directorate, Legislative Policy and Regulatory Affairs Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
We work closely with the other sectors of the agency that might provide us with useful information based on what they see too. When we are informed that a charity has been involved in receipt-related fraud, we obviously have to audit the charity. Depending on what we discover during the audit, once again—
4:15 p.m.
NDP
Hoang Mai NDP Brossard—La Prairie, QC
You have said that you get complaints, but do you have a process in place? And if you don’t receive complaints but donations have been made and the receipts are fraudulent, do you have a mechanism that automatically checks the amounts or do you have a policy in place instead of just waiting for complaints from the public? Do you still not have informers?
January 31st, 2012 / 4:15 p.m.
Director General, Charities Directorate, Legislative Policy and Regulatory Affairs Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
It is very difficult to manage this problem because things often happen without our knowing it. So the complaints are crucial. The information we might get from the other sectors of the agency is also very important.
Unfortunately, at the moment, we don’t have an automated system that could allow us—
4:15 p.m.
NDP
Hoang Mai NDP Brossard—La Prairie, QC
Is there a shortage of staff, auditors or people who could go and check? We know that the Canada Revenue Agency could go after a lot of money.
4:15 p.m.
Director General, Charities Directorate, Legislative Policy and Regulatory Affairs Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
It is more than a shortage of staff. It is rather the way the systems handle the receipts and the way we do our audits. So it is not just a shortage of staff.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Mark Adler Conservative York Centre, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to thank everybody for being here today.
Ms. Michaud, thank you so much. You took me back to quantitative methods with your talk of median. You just didn't talk about standard deviation, though; that's what I was waiting for.
I want to follow up on a few things. I see on page 4 of the graph that in 2010 the dollars are constant, but the levels of charitable donations have increased quite markedly. What would you attribute that to? Is it a result of government policy over a few decades, or is it just that Canadians are feeling more generous, or is it beyond the scope of your...?
4:15 p.m.
Director General, Education, Labour and Income Statistics Branch, Statistics Canada
It's beyond the scope--
4:15 p.m.
Director General, Education, Labour and Income Statistics Branch, Statistics Canada
--but I'll be happy to talk about standard deviation.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Mark Adler Conservative York Centre, ON
Okay. Also, on page 7—I guess this is pretty typical—the number of donors is larger than the number of donations until you hit.... The older you get, the more the number of donations outstrips the number of donors. Okay.
I want to move over to CRA. A non-profit corporation, or a non-share capital corporation, is different from a charitable organization. Is that correct?
4:15 p.m.
Director General, Charities Directorate, Legislative Policy and Regulatory Affairs Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
That is correct.
