We're not against a company that wishes to demutualize, if they say that is the route to follow. What we're saying is that company, first of all, should at least look at the possibility of merging with other mutual insurance companies. This is how we have operated for the last 170 years. There have been a whole lot of amalgamations within the mutuals. We're asking, as part of the regulations, that the company that wishes to demutualize go through the process of looking at the possibility of merging with an existing mutual insurance company. It could be a co-operative insurance company as well, because they have values similar to ours. That process should be there. If ever that doesn't work, then maybe demutualization should be considered. The surplus of that company has been built by 100% of the policyholders over many generations. It should stay within the mutual system.
When you sell the company, if you look at the example of AXA and Intact that was talked about, the price paid at that time was 1.8 times the value. We're not talking $1.3 billion in this case, but maybe $2 billion now. It's political because it may never be realized, but the potential is there. When you look at the history, this is what they sell for.