Evidence of meeting #59 for Finance in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was change.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Senior Advisor, Economic Analysis and Forecasting Division, Demand and Labour Analysis, Economic and Fiscal Policy Branch, Department of Finance
The AG, as well as a number of other organizations, was not part of the formal review base, but of course it was deemed appropriate by the minister to request a voluntary examination of efficiencies, and the responses to that request varied according to the results of those reviews that were done internally.
It was an internal review that was not mandated but requested.
NDP
Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
As far as these 11 organizations are concerned, are these the only services of the Auditor General that are being cut? Eliminating the financial audit of these organizations by the Auditor General will generate $60 million in savings. Is that correct?
Senior Advisor, Economic Analysis and Forecasting Division, Demand and Labour Analysis, Economic and Fiscal Policy Branch, Department of Finance
No, the savings associated with this measure will be $1.4 million annually, and it's part of their larger set of savings of $6.7 million, but that $6.7 million incorporates other administrative efficiencies and backroom office operations.
NDP
Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
Okay.
The fact remains that financial audits are useful and important. Who is going to audit these agencies?
Senior Advisor, Economic Analysis and Forecasting Division, Demand and Labour Analysis, Economic and Fiscal Policy Branch, Department of Finance
The Auditor General has deemed it sufficient that they are captured within the broader government audit. So it's not necessarily the case that they will have to have additional audit activities.
NDP
Senior Advisor, Economic Analysis and Forecasting Division, Demand and Labour Analysis, Economic and Fiscal Policy Branch, Department of Finance
As I mentioned, they are captured within the annual audit of the public accounts, and the Auditor General believes this to be a sufficiently extensive capturing of their financial statements.
NDP
Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
Will the Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions also play a role in some cases?
Senior Advisor, Economic Analysis and Forecasting Division, Demand and Labour Analysis, Economic and Fiscal Policy Branch, Department of Finance
No, that would not be part of the mandate of the Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions.
NDP
Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
I am not necessarily going to go over every one of the Auditor General's decisions, but I would like to know whether he thought these audits were unnecessary or whether he thought he could set them aside, given the cuts he was suggested to make. Did the Auditor General think it was important to continue providing these services?
Senior Advisor, Economic Analysis and Forecasting Division, Demand and Labour Analysis, Economic and Fiscal Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Again, he was reacting to earlier directives from Treasury Board, from the Government of Canada, that stated that it's not necessary to perform a financial audit of every government agency and crown corporation and department on an annual basis. So this is something that has been an established practice, and the only reason why these particular organizations have continued to have audits is because of the requirement in their enabling legislation.
That was the motivation for him to make these changes.
Conservative
Conservative
Cathy McLeod Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
Thank you.
Given the line of questioning, I thought it might be important to state that we have invited the Auditor General as a witness. We hope he will attend. Mr. Boissonneault is being asked many questions and having to hypothesize about the AG's thinking. He's nodding his head, so I just want to flag this for the comfort of my colleagues on the other side, that we will have an opportunity to delve into that, I hope, with the AG when he's here.
Again, I just wanted to make that comment so that Mr. Boissonneault isn't left in the position of continually having to speculate on what the AG was or was not thinking.
NDP
Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'm really excited because this is being televised, and I'm about to prove to my grandchildren that their poppa knows how to turn on an iPad. I've made some notes in here.
Conservative
NDP
Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
I did have to ask them a couple of things. Turning it on, I got.
Sir, when I see this government changing the constitutions of three provinces to increase federal control over the financial affairs of those territories, and that is being done without public consultation, by adding the changes to Bill C-38, it leaves me—and I'm not expecting you to respond to this part—with a sense of something that's trying to be snuck through. We have a 400-page document here.
I find it ironic, when one considers the fact that the stated fourth pillar of the government's northern policy is improving and devolving northern governments.
Do you have any further information as to why this has been enough of a priority for the government to add it to Bill C-38?
Senior Advisor, Economic Analysis and Forecasting Division, Demand and Labour Analysis, Economic and Fiscal Policy Branch, Department of Finance
As was mentioned earlier, the Auditor General presented this proposal to the Standing Committee on Public Accounts, and at that time he expressed his intention, or his desire, to move forward with these changes. But a mechanism was needed to make the legislative changes happen, and the budget implementation bill was deemed to be the most appropriate place to bring that about.
NDP
Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
Yes, it is a bit troubling. Again, this is the political side, not your side, but the territories are on record as requesting the elimination of the limiting provisions on borrowing. One has to wonder why this government doesn't give the territorial legislatures the same respect they seem to give to the provinces, because they don't control the provinces.
What analysis—
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
I'm sorry, Mr. Marston. I thought I made this clear. We are dealing with division 1 first. I think your question is on division 4, the territorial borrowing limits.
Just to be clear, we and Finance thought it would be easier to go division by division.
NDP
Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
Okay. Then I'll pass on the rest of the question and come back to it.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
Okay. You'll be on the list then.
I don't have anyone further on this list—oh, we do.
Mr. Mai, please.
NDP
Hoang Mai NDP Brossard—La Prairie, QC
I have some questions about the Canada Revenue Agency.
We all know that it is very important for us to have confidence in this agency and, accordingly, that we trust the audits. If I understand correctly, Canada Revenue Agency will still be audited, but there will be changes in the CRA's performance reports. Can you explain what these reports indicate and what impact eliminating the audits might have on them?
