Evidence of meeting #62 for Finance in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was work.
A video is available from Parliament.
3:45 p.m.
Director, Democracy, Commonwealth and Francophonie Division, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
Thank you for your comments about our work. It's appreciated.
I would say that the capacity that we have at DFAIT to work with different NGOs is now much bigger than it used to be in the past. In many cases we're working with Canadian NGOs, but we're working also directly with other NGOs. So the sort of options we can offer our minister in terms of work is quite significant.
3:50 p.m.
NDP
Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
Other parallel organizations around the world have a similar bent to them as Rights and Democracy, in the sense that they're an NGO and they're lower profile. It seems strange to us to be sacrificing that for budgetary reasons.
I understood the budget was about $11 million. Is that a fair number?
May 28th, 2012 / 3:50 p.m.
Director, Democracy, Commonwealth and Francophonie Division, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
Its total is about $9.8 million, yes, half and half between DFAIT and—
3:50 p.m.
NDP
Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
Relative to the overall budget of the government, we're not talking a huge amount of savings. It really makes me concerned—and I'm not asking your opinion on this—that there's a political activity happening here, as opposed to a budgetary measure. I'm really concerned about that, because it was a well-respected organization worldwide.
That's all I have, Mr. Chair.
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
Okay, thank you very much, Mr. Marston.
There's a minute left, or we could come back on another round.
3:50 p.m.
An hon. member
Another round.
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Nicoloff, for appearing before us.
What do you estimate are the savings for the government by making this move?
3:50 p.m.
Director, Democracy, Commonwealth and Francophonie Division, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
For this year it's too early to say as we are looking to the closure and the commitment the organization still has. As for next year, this will depend on how far we may be able to go with a proposal we can make to the minister, and the decisions the minister will make regarding the work that DFAIT could do, which was done in the past by Rights and Democracy.
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
3:50 p.m.
Director, Democracy, Commonwealth and Francophonie Division, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
Not at this stage, no.
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK
There are other organizations and NGOs that are doing similar work, not only in Canada but abroad. I know the Parliamentary Centre is doing work like this. Former parliamentarians do similar work through GOPAC and groups such as that.
You talked about how the environment has changed from whence it first was discovered to the environment we're working in today. Can you highlight some of the changes that have happened in that environment throughout the world?
3:50 p.m.
Director, Democracy, Commonwealth and Francophonie Division, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
Rapidly, I can think of two significant changes, and they're linked to the influence NGOs have today. We're working very strongly on the question of the role civil society should play in any society. As we know, most of the repressive regimes do not give any possibility for their own civil society to express itself and to play what is an essential role of conduit, if I may say, between the government and the population itself.
The second change I can think of is the communication facilities, how easy it is for us now to work directly with different organizations, obviously Canadian organizations, but also international organizations. Those organizations also are much more linked than they used to be, again because of the easier communication facilities that we have today.
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
The timing of this.... If you look at the democratic upheavals, the Arab Spring, and the role Canada has traditionally played in terms of issues around rights and institution building and democracy building, what entity specifically would be prepared to address these issues once Rights and Democracy is not there? Could you name a couple that you would see as fulfilling the mandate and meeting those responsibilities?
3:50 p.m.
Director, Democracy, Commonwealth and Francophonie Division, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
Thank you for this question.
We're working with a wide range of organizations. We're working with the Parliamentary Centre, with International IDEA. There is an extended range of different organizations we can work with.
The minister has also indicated that some of the functions that Rights and Democracy was performing could be done by DFAIT. We're looking right now at options. We hope to be able to make proposals for the minister for an eventual decision about what sort of role we might play directly that Rights and Democracy was playing.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
Among other things, Rights and Democracy has a special status with some of the multilateral organizations, including the UN Economic and Social Council, the ILO, the African Commission on Human and Peoples' Rights.
What organization will represent Canada within those fora? Have you identified the fora within which Rights and Democracy had special status and determined what organization will represent Canada as a group to replace Rights and Democracy?
3:55 p.m.
Director, Democracy, Commonwealth and Francophonie Division, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
Thank you again for the question.
One thing I would like to make specific is that Rights and Democracy was an arm's length organization from the government, so in that sense it would not represent the Government of Canada. It's too early at this stage for me to be able to say that in certain circumstances the government might want to be present directly or might see if some other partners might be able at least to have the Canadian voice heard. I'm afraid it's too early for me to say at this stage.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
As an arm's length organization since 1988 under successive governments, would there have been, from time to time, examples of where Rights and Democracy may have taken decisions that would be contrary to whatever government was in power at the time?
3:55 p.m.
Director, Democracy, Commonwealth and Francophonie Division, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
It could have happened. They were not talking on behalf of the Government of Canada.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
No, but over that period of time since 1988, were there times when Rights and Democracy took a position that was not necessarily consistent with that of the government at the time?
3:55 p.m.
Director, Democracy, Commonwealth and Francophonie Division, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
Thank you. I don't have a specific example in mind, but Rights and Democracy was operating within a mandate that was established by the legislation and guidance of its board of directors. So for its operation, the director and his staff were reporting to its board and not to the Canadian government.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
Rights and Democracy made some pretty significant changes the last few years in terms of the design and implementation of a new organizational structure to be more responsive to some of the changes that have occurred in the nature of international development.
Could you elaborate on some of the reforms that have occurred?